Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:53 am**

Vraith wrote:hmmm...I'm not sure I agree with that. Probably, with learning and practice we can arrive at a point where decision enters the picture.

I'll grant you that one has to realise that we can make that decision. Until we do, our control over our own lives is limited though, and we unknowingly allow others to have that power over us.

aliantha wrote:Except for Av, who was apparently, and most unnaturally, born with it.

Nah, I think that I was just so oblivious to anything that wasn't in books or in my head during the early part of my life that by the time I became aware of other stuff, my ego was already pretty firmly ensconced.

--A

Posted: **Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:33 pm**

Avatar wrote:
Cameraman Jenn wrote:I didn't always realize this but it doesn't really matter what other people think or say about me so much as what I think and feel about me.
Agreed. Being possessed of a (perhaps too) strong self-image, I can't say that random insults or disregard have ever bothered me much. I've always been either oblivious to them, or unable to take them seriously, because after all, I know myself better than anybody else can. And nobody has that sort of power over you unless you give it to them.

In the end, we decide (not necessarily consciously) how we react to things. Nobody can make you happy or unhappy. You do it to yourself.

--A

I also agree, but my problem is that I am a terrible disappointment to myself. Several years ago I had a major episode of reality setting in, and losing a lot of self-delusion I had built up as a way (I thought) of protecting my fragile self and it was devastating. I realized a lot of how I saw myself was conceit and vanity, plain and simple.

The only way I could survive intact was to read my Bible and remind myself daily that God's opinion of me outweighs my own. I had to make His love and His desire for me more important in my mind than the abjectness of my self-worth.

I applaud those like Av who have a strong sense of self and can go through life undaunted. I have to admit, I am not that strong. I need this:

O LORD, how many are my foes! How many rise up against me!...
But you are a shield around me, O LORD; you bestow glory on me and lift up my head. (Psalm 3)

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:43 pm**

Wow- great responses guys!

Avatar wrote:
Cambo wrote:
Did I ask you?
Hahaha, my standard reply to that is "If I waited to be asked, I'd never say anything."

--A

That explains your post count.

Vraith wrote:And...related to something Linna said...it might even be true that "no one likes you" in particular situations. Been there done that. The trick is discovering WHY...cuz maybe you suck, but you probably don't; mostly it's them that sucks and they "hate" you cuz you don't.

Yeah, I don't think we should just dismiss negative or hurtful things people say to or about us. Nor should we just take them as true on face value. We should examine them, hold them up against everything we know about ourselves and everything we know about the person saying them. Sometimes you'll learn something about yourself, more often you'll learn something about your attacker.

Linna wrote:Except there is this sadness: if he spoke those words amid the group, and others who were open to a different position (on the matter of liking you or not) remained silent... they DID give him some manner of permission to speak for the group (if not EVERYONE). *hug*

And I have surely done that number before; I'm sure we all have.

Yeah, nah, they all hated me.

But I know what you mean; around that era, I would keep a cowardly silence whenever someone else was copping flak, just grateful that I was getting a break. Not proud of that.

[quote="Deer"Most of the posts in this thread have a common subtext: that the ability to laugh, at oneself and others, is powerful defense against words that wound.[/quote]

I would add learn how to laugh at yourself before you laugh at others. Then you'll know how to laugh with compassion and true humour, not just spite.

Lord Foul wrote:And the old chestnut: they're off being morons, getting drunk, complaining about age in their 20s. What they want to do. What they did in high school. And bagging my groceries.

Apologies to any supermarket employees.

Hey, hey! Why, I oughta....wait, how much did you say you can benchpress? Apologies, sir, would you like your bottles double-bagged?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:30 am**

Deer of the Dawn, I need to say this to you. We all have self revelations from time to time otherwise we would never grow or change or learn from our mistakes, but that's the point. We make mistakes so that we can learn and grow and become better people for that life lesson we just learned. Rather than dwell on who you USED to be, take that devastation you are obviously still dwelling on and turn it into the revelation it was meant to be. Stop being disappointed in your past self and concentrate on being who you want to be from this moment on and yes you can be humble that you made a mistake but use that mistake to become a brighter better you. And please don't take this the wrong way but God's love should not be a crutch to carry you through your self doubt or a replacement wall for the walls that came down to cause you pain, God should be a light inside you that shines through you so that you have no need of crutches or walls.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:45 am**

Cambo wrote: That explains your post count.

Yes, yes it does.

--A

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:29 am**

Cameraman Jenn wrote:And please don't take this the wrong way but God's love should not be a crutch to carry you through your self doubt or a replacement wall for the walls that came down to cause you pain, God should be a light inside you that shines through you so that you have no need of crutches or walls

+1.

I've already said I'm far from a Christian,so maybe my conception of God doesn't apply here. But I agree. God is not a crutch. God is the purest and most absolute part of your Self. All that is Holy is present in you. And Deer, don't think think the Holy in your Self doesn't shine through.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:06 pm**

Awww... and I saw deer's words as a response to a sane assessment of the matrix of her strengths and weaknesses.

Some weaknesses are irreversable.
If you are short and over 25 years old, you probably won't get any taller.
If you're a created, finite being and don't know the length of your own days, you play the game of life within a created and finite body (though yep, got a spirit and that allows some caah-raaazy possibilities).

Well, I'm gonna quote y'all on the "sidetracks RE 'the Christian God'" thread, since I know if I keep going I'll REALLY sidetrack this thread.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:38 pm**

Cameraman Jenn wrote:Deer of the Dawn, I need to say this to you. We all have self revelations from time to time otherwise we would never grow or change or learn from our mistakes, but that's the point. We make mistakes so that we can learn and grow and become better people for that life lesson we just learned. Rather than dwell on who you USED to be, take that devastation you are obviously still dwelling on and turn it into the revelation it was meant to be. Stop being disappointed in your past self and concentrate on being who you want to be from this moment on and yes you can be humble that you made a mistake but use that mistake to become a brighter better you. And please don't take this the wrong way but God's love should not be a crutch to carry you through your self doubt or a replacement wall for the walls that came down to cause you pain, God should be a light inside you that shines through you so that you have no need of crutches or walls.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Cambo wrote:I've already said I'm far from a Christian,so maybe my conception of God doesn't apply here. But I agree. God is not a crutch. God is the purest and most absolute part of your Self. All that is Holy is present in you. And Deer, don't think think the Holy in your Self doesn't shine through.

Thank you, Cambo.

If I wasn't clear, then let me complete my message: I needed to take my focus off my failings/shortcomings/disappointments and put it on the Holy.

But do we not need a crutch, sometimes? At least until our wings are strong? I know I do. Then other times, I am strong enough to help others who are weak. I think that's the way it's supposed to work.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:27 am**

When a crutch for the spirit is called for, we are always better off leaning on one which is Holy...however that is manifest for us. Immanence for some. Transcendence for some. Yet others cleave to paths which resemble neither...but still are Holy.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:37 pm**

...when I'm strong enough, words do not hurt much, and I can find words to heal others. Love is a holy thing.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:17 pm**

Deer, yes, yes, Yes! Your last five words deserve special treatment. Capital letters, boldface, large font.

Oh my. Saying that reminds me of how Arlo Guthrie described the five words on the back of the form he had to fill out on the Group W bench (as described in Alice's Restaurant):

Arlo wrote:I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on the other side, in parentheses, capital letters, quotated, read the following words:

("KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?")

...and that brings us back to words that hurt, nu?

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:14 pm**

Savor Dam wrote:When a crutch for the spirit is called for, we are always better off leaning on one which is Holy...however that is manifest for us. Immanence for some. Transcendence for some. Yet others cleave to paths which resemble neither...but still are Holy.

When we are focused on God and his Love, we take it off of 'self' and much pain can come from spending too much time focused on 'self' and being too.... introverted is the best word I can think of. I read recently "Crazy Love,Overwhelmed by a Relentless God" and in there I read this and I think it applies... When you are running toward Christ , you are freed up to serve, love and give thanks without guilt, worry, or fear.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:34 pm**

Crazy Love? I am really interested in getting my hands on that book! Awesome quote.

Of course I think many people here were given images (and I use that word intentionally cause idols are also called images!) of God, and even of Christ that are... inaccurate and abominable. If I were in that situation, I would hope I'd react: "I'm not sure where or to whom to run, but I won't run to THAT."

If I'm reading things right, a lot of folks around here... instead of being given a cup of water in Christ's name, or being visited in prison in Christ's name, were given "special kind of condemnation," all "in Christ's name."

And that's a recipe for words that not only hurt, but also HARM.

Fortunately, if God is indeed transcendent as I believe, their condemners will pay a special "millstone fee" (if you want the reference, lemme know; I know I'm being cryptic) at the judgement.

And there will be hope for those who now seem cut off from Christ.

I think the expression you're looking for is something like "the heart all curved in on itself" (harder to use in a sentence) or "self-focused"... even self-righteous (or "obsessively concerned with being the source of their own righteousness") would do.

"Introverted" isn't the word you want; introvert or extrovert is more a personality makeup thing, about how you recharge your energy, not where your heart chooses to focus it.

Now, I should try to apply the wisdom of that book to myself.....

-sigh-

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:08 pm**

Overwhelmed by a relentless god? I am reminded of

BATTER my heart, three person'd God; for, you
As yet but knocke, breathe, shine, and seeke to mend;
That I may rise, and stand, o'erthrow mee,'and bend
Your force, to breake, blowe, burn and make me new.
I, like an usurpt towne, to'another due, 5
Labour to'admit you, but Oh, to no end,
Reason your viceroy in mee, mee should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weake or untrue.
Yet dearely'I love you,'and would be loved faine,
But am betroth'd unto your enemie: 10
Divorce mee,'untie, or breake that knot againe;
Take mee to you, imprison mee, for I
Except you'enthrall mee, never shall be free,
Nor ever chast, except you ravish mee.

(By John Donne)

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:32 pm**

Holsety wrote:Overwhelmed by a relentless god? I am reminded of

BATTER my heart, three person'd God; for, you
As yet but knocke, breathe, shine, and seeke to mend;
That I may rise, and stand, o'erthrow mee,'and bend
Your force, to breake, blowe, burn and make me new.
I, like an usurpt towne, to'another due, 5
Labour to'admit you, but Oh, to no end,
Reason your viceroy in mee, mee should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weake or untrue.
Yet dearely'I love you,'and would be loved faine,
But am betroth'd unto your enemie: 10
Divorce mee,'untie, or breake that knot againe;
Take mee to you, imprison mee, for I
Except you'enthrall mee, never shall be free,
Nor ever chast, except you ravish mee.
(By John Donne)

One of my favorites!

Here's another: The Sacred Romance.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:10 pm**

This is really hard for me to say man but i am dying inside now i know that you dont know... Me and *blank* happened before you guys broke up. *blank* might be happy for you to be left in the dark but i owe you this much. however you feel about me after this i will understand. I love you man

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:15 am**

Holarchy wrote:
This is really hard for me to say man but i am dying inside now i know that you dont know... Me and *blank* happened before you guys broke up. *blank* might be happy for you to be left in the dark but i owe you this much. however you feel about me after this i will understand. I love you man

Ouch.

Kevin's Watch

Words that hurt

Re: Words that hurt

Re: Words that hurt