Kevin's Watch

Sure, I'll take $500 off you!

Being new, I am kinda fuzzy on the whole what-they-are-&-what-I-do-with-them thing, but what the heck! Alms for the newbies, Av?

1) how did i miss this?

2) i will not beg for money.

3) yes, yes i will beg for money - i do it all the time.

4) hopefully the missus wakes up saturday before all your loot is gone.

5) please. there i said it.

Sheesh, there ya go sarge. don't use it all on booze, get off the streets, create some threads or something.

[del]

Zorm...are you trying to use guilt to prod readership of Guilt? How very Wayfriend of you!

For the record, I read all three installments and would welcome more of your writing as well as your graphic artistry.

[del]

Zorm wrote:

Linna Heartlistener wrote: D'oh... I'm sorry you made that oath.

Personally, I don't see the point of it, unless it's around 200 words of nonsense. :shrug: Not after spending 80+ hours on something that one person has looked at during the past quarter a year. Curdles your inspiration quite efficiently. Could have well used that time for something more reasonable.

Hey Zorm, hope you slept well

Please don't take this as preaching, or as telling you how you should relate to your own art/writing, but for me personally, I've always* found that writing for writing's sake, or drawing for drawing's sake, or your-chosen-creative-passion for your-chosen-creative-passion's sake is the healthiest way to approach things. Whilst it's always nice to get feedback, to know that our art has touched others, (we are social beings after all!), I find if my foundation can be a relationship with creativity itself and if I can enjoy that relationship, then hopefully that's enough. (At the very least, it helps lessen the pain of any perceived rejection, which, like all creative beings, I'm super sensitive to!)

(Actually the, "always found" part of that sentence is bullshit. 'twas, as with most things, a learning experience over time and involved much blood and bruising )

Alright, this is the fastest and most angular divergence of a thread that I've ever seen into off-topic [though I'm a newb compared to some here].

Zorm: you are being a freaking moron. I don't know what you or someone or just the forum code did to make it happen BUT: me for instance, I've seen the separate comments thread for one of your fanfic things...and guess what? I have no fricking idea where the actual piece is. How can anyone comment on what they haven't seen? I've commented on your damn drawings for christ's sake, and I'm not even a visual person! I do words! And [in my own way] as good as Z or WF or any number of other peeps [they're as good as me too], but in another way, why the hell do you care?
do your damn work cuz it's your damn work...you have no idea why peeps pat you on the back, punch you in the mouth, or don't even see you...yet all three can help you. Reactions are a fucking BONUS, not the POINT.
sorry, I'm raving at you, but I have a raver item, and someone else got me going on raver shit today. [and also I'm sympathizing and encouraging even if it doesn't sound that way]

so either ask for WGD like the thread demands, or get back to work!

Vraith wrote:Alright, this is the fastest and most angular divergence of a thread that I've ever seen into off-topic [though I'm a newb compared to some here].

Zorm: you are being a freaking moron. I don't know what you or someone or just the forum code did to make it happen BUT: me for instance, I've seen the separate comments thread for one of your fanfic things...and guess what? I have no fricking idea where the actual piece is. How can anyone comment on what they haven't seen? I've commented on your damn drawings for christ's sake, and I'm not even a visual person! I do words! And [in my own way] as good as Z or WF or any number of other peeps [they're as good as me too], but in another way, why the hell do you care?
do your damn work cuz it's your damn work...you have no idea why peeps pat you on the back, punch you in the mouth, or don't even see you...yet all three can help you. Reactions are a fucking BONUS, not the POINT.
sorry, I'm raving at you, but I have a raver item, and someone else got me going on raver shit today. [and also I'm sympathizing and encouraging even if it doesn't sound that way]

so either ask for WGD like the thread demands, or get back to work!

Wow, you couldn't have found a gentle way to communicate your sentiments? And no, it doesn't strike me as sympathetic or encouraging, at least not according to the conventional definitions of these words. FYI, Zorm's post was in response to a comment from Linna. And I don't care if this is off-topic.

Shaun das Schaf wrote: Wow, you couldn't have found a gentle way to communicate your sentiments? And no, it doesn't strike my as sympathetic or encouraging, at least not according to the conventional definitions of these words. FYI, Zorm's post was in response to a comment from Linna. And I don't care if this is off-topic.

Sure I coulda...but are you sure Zorm needed gentleness? Or that Zorm couldn't see the irony/humor in the way I did it? You think I missed Zorm was relating to Linna, and that what I said applied to both of them to an extent? And/or that Linna [considering some exchanges we've had] might think "hey, that applies to me, too!? Or that both of them have probably read a number of my posts and understood, and if they didn't wouldn't have realized they could say something and I would apologize if I offended, cuz [unlike my real life] peeps here usually seem to get my intention even they don't agree with my point/logic [and I don't freak out if I think they missed something, or just plain disagree?]
You see that I'm not freaking out right now, even though it seems like a rave, right?

hee hee...seriously, relax and smile YEW, if I've misinterpreted or offended peeps I'll beg forgiveness from them [for the method and hurt feelings, at least].
It's nice to know you're not sheepish in confronting peeps though.

For the record, I was mostly replying to the phrase "I usually just stop to prevent further disappointment and move on if there's no response" and the advice it implied if one isn't careful. Because that is only a good thing if you are CERTAIN that your approach/vision is WRONG. If the response/lack isn't your own insufficiency, or only insufficient so far stopping is precisely the wrong thing to do.

Vraith wrote:

Shaun das Schaf wrote: Wow, you couldn't have found a gentle way to communicate your sentiments? And no, it doesn't strike my as sympathetic or encouraging, at least not according to the conventional definitions of these words. FYI, Zorm's post was in response to a comment from Linna. And I don't care if this is off-topic.

Sure I coulda...but are you sure Zorm needed gentleness? Or that Zorm couldn't see the irony/humor in the way I did it? You think I missed Zorm was relating to Linna, and that what I said applied to both of them to an extent? And/or that Linna [considering some exchanges we've had] might think "hey, that applies to me, too!? Or that both of them have probably read a number of my posts and understood, and if they didn't wouldn't have realized they could say something and I would apologize if I offended, cuz [unlike my real life] peeps here usually seem to get my intention even they don't agree with my point/logic [and I don't freak out if I think they missed something, or just plain disagree?]
You see that I'm not freaking out right now, even though it seems like a rave, right?

hee hee...seriously, relax and smile YEW, if I've misinterpreted or offended peeps I'll beg forgiveness from them [for the method and hurt feelings, at least].
It's nice to know you're not sheepish in confronting peeps though.

For the record, I was mostly replying to the phrase "I usually just stop to prevent further disappointment and move on if there's no response" and the advice it implied if one isn't careful. Because that is only a good thing if you are CERTAIN that your approach/vision is WRONG. If the response/lack isn't your own insufficiency, or only insufficient so far stopping is precisely the wrong thing to do.

Firstly, Av, you should start threads more often.

Secondly, Vraith, that Zorm has expressed confidence issues with her work and self, suggests to me that a gentle approach indeed might have been better. We are each of us at different stages of self-development/security and whilst the more brutal methods of education (even if they are meant humourously, which I must admit I missed) suit some people, I don't think they suit all of us, hence my post. I didn't think your post had anything to do with Linna and didn't mean to suggest it did. Again though, I'm new, so I may be missing some pertinent history.

For the record, I very much agree with the 'intentions' behind your words. I think it would be a damned shame if Zorm stopped her work because of externally-created disappointment. She's obviously enormously talented. (I LOVE her artwork.) I think it just takes some of us a little longer to elevate internal self-belief/worth above external indications of such. And personally, I like to keep that in mind.

In conclusion, I wasn't confident Zorm would take your feedback in the manner in which you say it was intended and thus I felt the need to defend her. I may have erred in that approach but it's a risk, in this area, I'm always willing to take.

And no YEW relax and smile, you're the one raving!

Had originally decided to leave quietly, but...

I wasn't able to read too much past the 'you're being a f*** moron' part or whatever was written there, and don't know what's below it or who has responded. Have a hunch it's nothing flattering, however. In my current state of mind, I cannot stay on a forum where people have to resort to such personal attacks and swearing over something subjective about creativity I might've worded poorly (or should've elaboratd more) in a state of tiredness (please try to understand it's sometimes very difficult to convey the right message in a foreign language when you're exhausted). I don't often start crying because of something said online, but I guess the tone of those names was just too much. I also did mention I didn't want the discussion turning this way, as I've been trying to forget the whole embarrassment, but unfortunately it slipped into the wrong tracks. I was answering Linna and not trying to do guilt-prodding or whining or something along those lines. So I don't understand why it forcibly had to be dragged back to the stuff I would've wanted to avoid entirely.


Shaun: I'm glad you can find your inspiration from creativity itself--as you put it--but in this sense, artists/writers differ hugely from one another. I get most of my energy/enthusiasm from brainstorming, sharing, and getting critique or suggestions from others (and I don't mean mindless praise, but healthy, constructive feedback). I guess I was trying to explain this in the few lines above, that if this particular link's broken, then the inspiration wanes. It's a tad difficult to elaborate, but I suppose my creative side might be more social than that of someone else's.

Anyway, thanks for your kind response and it was nice talking to you here.

--

As for the 'offending piece': I've removed it along with other stuff, so no need to call me names any longer. I don't believe I'll be returning to follow this topic either, what with having no guts to read the rest in any case. I realize I truly should've backed away in mid-December when things started getting on the sour side.

Well, I stand corrected, I guess it didn't come across as intended and did offend. and I deserve this.

-- wrote:I cannot stay on a forum where ......

I'm sorry, but that's as far as I could read; the rest of your diatribe was boooooooooooring. Was your writing like this? No wonder people didn't read it. Cya, goodbye, au revior, sayonara, etc., you big whiney baby.

And, FWIW, I consider it bad form to steal two thirds of my patented alternate username.

Thanks for stopping by, dAN...

dANdeLION wrote:

-- wrote:I cannot stay on a forum where ......

I'm sorry, but that's as far as I could read; the rest of your diatribe was boooooooooooring. Was your writing like this? No wonder people didn't read it. Cya, goodbye, au revior, sayonara, etc., you big whiney baby.

You've really got a handle on this eh...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

Anyway, Zorm's gone now so you'll have to practice your unique brand of kindness on someone else.

FWIW, I did manage to contact her via another means to check she was okay, you know, just as an alternative to kicking someone when they're down.

.......and that's how you get people to read your posts, folks!

I too had PMed the former Watcher formerly known as Zorm encouraging her to not let a bit of overstated criticism drive her away.

I suppose that approach isn't going to work, in light of the piling on that has occurred. Shame. She was a brilliant artist, her fanfic was pretty good, and her photos of her homeland were quite interesting...as were many of her posts.

dANdeLION wrote:.......and that's how you get people to read your posts, folks!

My son quickly learned a few very effective ways to get attention. It took a while longer to dawn on him that the sort of attention it garnered was not the kind he really was seeking.

But there is an easy explanation here: dAN has always insisted he is not a writer.

God damn what happened to this thread? Try a bit of charity and look what happens.

Ok. Bad Vraith. Very very bad. I didn't know you weren't being completely serious and incredibly harsh, and I read a lot of your posts, and English is my first language.

Now obviously I didn't see the post that prompted all of this, but I'm sure it didn't deserve such a response. I'm sure you've already sent a PM of abject apology to Zorm in case she ever comes back.

Zorm, (in case you deign to read it), Vraith didn't mean it like that. Hard as it may be to see it any other way.

I sincerely hope that this doesn't keep you from the Watch. We're mostly more considerate than that and usually ribbing is more obviously good natured.

So, perhaps we can be forgiven.

(Yes, everybody still gets their WGD.)

--A