Kevin's Watch

peter wrote:This is what frightens the crap out of me. All of my 'vices' are so interlinked that I can see myself just transfering from one to another - and at 240+ lbs weight That I Don't Need!

Given that the impulses behind additive behaviour are invariably deep and complex, yes there's often some 'vice replacement', but it's not always bad.
Sometimes the replacement vice is better for you or may only prove 'problematic' in the short term (i.e. while the addictive relationship is being broken).
Also, you can get a lot of strength, learning, confidence etc out of beating one vice and transfer that to the remaining crux-vices.

I dunno, big dynamic topic, late at night here for me, gotta head off to bed soon. But I will say being as gentle on yourself as you can is a good idea.
Even if you have to make multiple attempts (usually the case) and even if some of them don't stick, the time you spent trying was time you didn't spend consuming your harmful vice.

Heavens! I need another vice? Can't drink - gives me terrible indigestion. Does two sugars in my tea count? And, I've just eaten an Eccles cake - lots of butter and sugar in that.

Last time I tried to give up I became addicted to extra strong mints. Not a good idea

Peter, if you do decide to quit, be sure to replace the addiction with something better. Exercise is good as it staves off the cravings for a bit, but is hard to maintain. Someone once suggested that doing something that uses your hands is a good thing, as the hand to mouth thing is just as powerful as the physical nicotine addiction. This person said that they took up learning guitar as a means to stave off the cravings.
I personally used patches when I was serious about quitting and did so successfully for a while. My problem now is with my workplace and how easy it is lately to bum a cigarette, and so I'm working on cutting that out of my life, especially now that my schedule has changed from a grueling one to one much easier to cope with. So my excusing for bumming are going out the window, and will make it easier to quit what little I do anymore. I only smoke at work anymore, so I'm now working on ending that.
As for the facts about smoking - I don't really have them other than "smoking is bad -mkay!" I do know that one of the benefits is sharper thinking though. Or maybe it is just perceived, but a friend who likes to make up "facts" told me that once.

I ought to join the sugar-free bandwagon with y'all.... Sugar's easier to quit than nicotine because there's no chemical dependency (ali says blithely), but it's harder because the crap is in everything. Plus, you can't not eat.

Cag, you're right, exercise only works for a short period of time. Then it gets to be a time burden, or an obligation, and I quit. I begin to think that the long-term replacement ought to be something you really, really, really enjoy doing. That's why guitar did it for your friend. Knitting works for me, but it's not as portable a solution as it could be; I can't really whip out my latest project when I'm bored at work (well, I *could*, but...).

Peter wrote:

I want to know I am doing it for tangible bennefit. ie I want facts, and facts is what I seem to be having real trouble finding

It's impossible to say (and anyone who does is a liar) 'keep smoking and it'll kill you' or 'quit and you won't get cancer'.

I think you're looking for the wrong information. This is what you WILL find...

Giving up facts:

- that cough/tight chest/wheeziness you have when you go to bed and/or get up will disappear within a month of giving up.

- even if you don't do any exercise, running 100 yards for a bus will not leave you feeling like you're about to explode, within 6 months of giving up. (Though i guarantee you, you're happy to catch the next bus at the moment rather than get that feeling, so maybe this isn't relevant now. It will be when you can do it, though!)

- you'll start to get a sense of smell within a month. This is not necessarily a good thing, as the world in general smells bad, however...

- with your sense of smell will come your sense of taste. At the moment you will not be able to taste subtly. After about 2-3 months of giving up, food becomes a pleasure rather than something you have to do to live. This isn't necessarily a dangerous thing with regard to your diet - I only discovered the joys of cooking and influencing the taste of a meal after i gave up smoking. My diet has improved beyond all comparison because of this - I don't subsist on pre-made crap any more, packed full of things that are bad for me just so I can get a taste.

- if you're in a relationship, your enjoyment of sex will vastly increase within six months

- if you drink alcohol, the severity of after-effects the next day plummets, almost immediately.

- if you give up properly (ie think about it and replace smoke-time with me-time) you will be less stressed rather than more stressed. Most of the stress-relief that you get from a ciggie is only due to the fact that your body is stressed because it hasn't had a smoke, does that make sense?

If you do decide to give up, let me know. There are lots of bad ways to do it.

What about pipe and cigar smoking?

Pretty much just as bad Orlion.

peter wrote:I'm not ready today to tear up my cigs but I'm thinking it won't be long. Anybody else want to come along for the ride?

I'm heading that way. Thinking of trying to quit before the end of the year.



--A

17 hours, no fags. Off to London in a bit. Fingers and everything else crossed.

Good luck Iolanthe and many thanks Stonemaybe - a great set of incentives to kick off with. In terms of approach I'm leaning toward the 'staggered reduction' tecnique' but a bit fearful that it is just really an excuse to keep smoking longer. Somehow I don't think 'patches' will work for me, but we do sell these weird electronic ciggarettes at work and in a bizarre way they sort of do the trick. I've got two days of work to think it out a bit.

*IOLANTHE ROCKS* - Major respect for being the first to take up the batton!

Hope I'm not coming across as preaching. but....

Take more than 2 days to plan it. Write your plans down. Be ambitious. Make sure you address with what pleasure you're going to replace the pleasure of smoking. How are you going to cope when you have a really sh*t, stressful day? Set fixed milestones and plan to reward yourself for sticking to them.

Oh, and get ready for the dreams

No such thing as 'preaching' in this situation Stone maybe. Advice from those who have been their before is never to be sniffed at. I'm at the 'rolling it around in my head' stage. As I say I've never tried to quit before and I won't pretend I'm not worried about it for a number of reasons. I know people who 'start - stop', 'start - stop' on such a regular basis that it becomes almost random as to which phase you will catch them in. This contant failure does not seem to faze them in the slightest and more power to them for it. They just shrug it off - and go on to the next phase of their cycle. This - to my cost - is not me. I think (but one can never be sure on these things) that 'failing' could have a pretty detrimental effect on me. I self-judge pretty harshly at the best of times and don't want to give myself extra cause for sel-f chastisement if it can be helped - so yes, the thing needs carefull planning and much thought (or perhaps none at all - is there a risk in making it a bigger thing than it is?).

Actually, there is risk of making it a bigger thing than it is. If you fail, do try to shrug it off and try again. I know the first few times I tried to quit, I felt horrible after having a setback, and started smoking full time again, feeling a failure and that I'd never quit. Then when I took it seriously again, and had a bit more success, and didn't worry about it as much, I was eventually successful. Believe me - every time I have quit, it has usually taken about a month of trying before I was successful. But you really have to be committed to it, and realize that you are starting over at square one if you do give in and buy a pack. And all the hell you put yourself up to that point was for naught.
And ask yourself before you buy that pack if you are tempted - will it really make things better?
I did use the patch when I quit as it took care of the zombie-like feeling you have when you stop. The harder addiction in my opinion was the hand to mouth thing. I used blow-pops in the meantime to try to overcome that. It was fairly successful.

I don't think what Cag said can be overstated, you probably will fail, maybe more than just the first time [american lung association found only 40% succeeded on first try...a later study over longer time found it's really less than 10%, I personally know exactly ONE who did that...boy did it piss me off] you have to find a way to either say "DAMN! I Failed!" and not care that you did....or, if you're not the undeterred in the face of failure type [I sure wasn't on this], re-frame/redefine it in a way that works for you [a guy I know insisted to himself that the failures weren't failures...the periods of going without were just part of his training for the real event, the setbacks just recovery/rest periods, part of all good training systems...made me laugh, but it worked for him].

Avatar wrote:Pretty much just as bad Orlion.

I demand biochemical pathways!

Just remember folks, it only takes 70 mg of nicotine to kill an adult male. The only reason smokers don't drop dead is because the body can't absorb the nicotine well. That, and cigarette smoke is acidic, meaning the protonated nicotine can only enter through the lungs. Unlike pipe and cigar smoke, which is basic. In this case, nicotine can enter through the membranes of the lips and mouth... even more so through the lungs. Still very small absorbance, but more than cigarette smoke.

And that's your interesting fact of the day

Orlion wrote: Just remember folks, it only takes 70 mg of nicotine to kill an adult male.

SNIP

And that's your interesting fact of the day

Wasn't something like that in one of those rebel/anarchist manuals? To kill, like soak 3 cig butts in 2 oz's of water overnight, poor in coffee to hide the taste?

edited to fix quote

Vraith wrote:

Orlion wrote: Just remember folks, it only takes 70 mg of nicotine to kill an adult male.

SNIP

And that's your interesting fact of the day

Wasn't something like that in one of those rebel/anarchist manuals? To kill, like soak 3 cig butts in 2 oz's of water overnight, poor in coffee to hide the taste?

edited to fix quote

The library where I grew up had a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook.

Orlion wrote:

Vraith wrote:

Orlion wrote: Just remember folks, it only takes 70 mg of nicotine to kill an adult male.

SNIP

And that's your interesting fact of the day

Wasn't something like that in one of those rebel/anarchist manuals? To kill, like soak 3 cig butts in 2 oz's of water overnight, poor in coffee to hide the taste?

edited to fix quote

The library where I grew up had a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook.

of course it did. Heh...is that the one that shows how to make pretty damn effective "brass knuckles" with folded newspaper?

Vraith wrote:

Orlion wrote:

Vraith wrote: Wasn't something like that in one of those rebel/anarchist manuals? To kill, like soak 3 cig butts in 2 oz's of water overnight, poor in coffee to hide the taste?

edited to fix quote

The library where I grew up had a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook.

of course it did. Heh...is that the one that shows how to make pretty damn effective "brass knuckles" with folded newspaper?

I don't recall. I just remember my brother would talk about how he learned to pick locks and explode things from it.

I will give my own story on this: my grandfather (mother's father) died of colon cancer. He was a religious smoker, as well as a religious drinker of gin. He'd drink from 9 am until he passed out at night. In between that time, he'd puff away. He never developed lung cancer, or liver cancer until his colon cancer metastasized.

Then there's my father, who also died of colon cancer. He was a religious runner - ran some 10 miles a day, every day. But also puffed a pack of cigarettes a day. When he was diagnosed with cancer, he quit cold turkey and the doctors were amazed at his lungs. They'd never seen clean lungs in a smoker before. He eventually developed lung cancer and liver cancer after his colon cancer metastasized.

I used to smoke a half a pack a day. I quit when I got pregnant and every once in a while light up. I can't do it anymore, though. I feel like I want to puke after I smoke one, and especially if I'm drinking. I think the key is moderation. There's so many other factors and things you can die from, I don't really think lighting up every now and again is going to make a huge impact on your health, overall. I'm a much bigger believer in genetics, and what you are predisposed for.

That being said, I really do think the additives and things in cigarettes are really what kills you. Humans have been smoking tobacco for centuries, and we've done pretty well so far, I'd think. I would say fast food is worse for you than cigarettes.

What it really boils down to is - do you really want to quit? Of course your health is going to improve, but you'll be shooting yourself in the foot if you're a forever quitter.

Thats an interesting post JazFusion, and one I think really hits the spot with the 'do you really want to quit' point. I know on a 'top leve'l basis I want to quit - but deep inside there's this worm that gnaws away........