Kevin's Watch

When I first read some teasers about the beginning of the Last Chronicles, there was a reference to Linden's son -- my natural expectation was that it was Linden's and Covenant's son, conceived in the Land during the end of WGW (they were intimate after purging the Sunbane, IIRC).

This actually seemed like a very compelling idea. A child conceived in a land that may not exist (or at the very least doesn't exist within the same parameters as our world) and then raised in the real world. That child would never know his father (and the father would have been technically dead in the real world at the time of conception in the Land [!]). There would be great reason for that child to have a fractured mind and have some sort of nagging connection to the Land.

In fact, I'm still not entirely sure why the character of Jeremiah *couldn't* have been written as their child, to much greater depth of the story. It certainly would have given Covenant a greater connection to the character. And it may have served as a somewhat counter-example to his parentage of Elena. Almost every aspect of Jeremiah's own personality could have been the same in the story as it is written, but his PLACE in the story and his relations with the other principals could have been much more compelling.

Oh, and if he needed to be fourteen, just have 14 years pass in between the second and last Chrons instead of ten.

DoriendorCorishev wrote:When I first read some teasers about the beginning of the Last Chronicles, there was a reference to Linden's son -- my natural expectation was that it was Linden's and Covenant's son, conceived in the Land during the end of WGW (they were intimate after purging the Sunbane, IIRC).

This actually seemed like a very compelling idea. A child conceived in a land that may not exist (or at the very least doesn't exist within the same parameters as our world) and then raised in the real world. That child would never know his father (and the father would have been technically dead in the real world at the time of conception in the Land [!]). There would be great reason for that child to have a fractured mind and have some sort of nagging connection to the Land.

In fact, I'm still not entirely sure why the character of Jeremiah *couldn't* have been written as their child, to much greater depth of the story. It certainly would have given Covenant a greater connection to the character. And it may have served as a somewhat counter-example to his parentage of Elena. Almost every aspect of Jeremiah's own personality could have been the same in the story as it is written, but his PLACE in the story and his relations with the other principals could have been much more compelling.

Oh, and if he needed to be fourteen, just have 14 years pass in between the second and last Chrons instead of ten.

I like this idea a lot, actually.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Pinone wrote:Well, the irony is that-- for a series that supposedly is too enmeshed in internal dialogue to ever be filmed as a movie-- we got a largely "mindless violence" conclusion capped off with a Hollywood ending.

He should have stopped at six books. The first two Chronicles were the greatest fantasy series ever-- bar none. Now the ten books are just another good one.

That ending, by the way, involved a rainbow - Donaldson's God-like promise that there will never again be an end-of-days cataclysm.

I'm growingly more miffed at the ending. The culmination of both the First and the Second Chrons really puts the reader through the emotional wringer - the death of Foamfollower? The death of Covenant himself, fercrissakes? Not so with the finale of the Last Chrons - no character ever depicted three-dimensionally enough to care about ends up being lost or sacrificing him/herself.

I find the "cutesey" epilogue deeply unsatisfying, as I've mentioned elsewhere, but it did occur to me that the final rainbow was a pretty blatantly obvious symbol of the restored Arch of Time - and also that the combination of the seven colours of the rainbow (seven colours of the rainbow... seven of Kevin's Wards... seven words of power, anyone? Naaah, that's overthinking things) make up white... as in white gold. No wonder white gold's the keystone of the Arch, then.

TheFallen wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Pinone wrote:Well, the irony is that-- for a series that supposedly is too enmeshed in internal dialogue to ever be filmed as a movie-- we got a largely "mindless violence" conclusion capped off with a Hollywood ending.

He should have stopped at six books. The first two Chronicles were the greatest fantasy series ever-- bar none. Now the ten books are just another good one.

That ending, by the way, involved a rainbow - Donaldson's God-like promise that there will never again be an end-of-days cataclysm.

I'm growingly more miffed at the ending. The culmination of both the First and the Second Chrons really puts the reader through the emotional wringer - the death of Foamfollower? The death of Covenant himself, fercrissakes? Not so with the finale of the Last Chrons - no character ever depicted three-dimensionally enough to care about ends up being lost or sacrificing him/herself.

I find the "cutesey" epilogue deeply unsatisfying, as I've mentioned elsewhere, but it did occur to me that the final rainbow was a pretty blatantly obvious symbol of the restored Arch of Time - and also that the combination of the seven colours of the rainbow (seven colours of the rainbow... seven of Kevin's Wards... seven words of power, anyone? Naaah, that's overthinking things) make up white... as in white gold. No wonder white gold's the keystone of the Arch, then.

You've missed the Biblical importance of a rainbow.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

TheFallen wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote: That ending, by the way, involved a rainbow - Donaldson's God-like promise that there will never again be an end-of-days cataclysm.

I'm growingly more miffed at the ending. The culmination of both the First and the Second Chrons really puts the reader through the emotional wringer - the death of Foamfollower? The death of Covenant himself, fercrissakes? Not so with the finale of the Last Chrons - no character ever depicted three-dimensionally enough to care about ends up being lost or sacrificing him/herself.

I find the "cutesey" epilogue deeply unsatisfying, as I've mentioned elsewhere, but it did occur to me that the final rainbow was a pretty blatantly obvious symbol of the restored Arch of Time - and also that the combination of the seven colours of the rainbow (seven colours of the rainbow... seven of Kevin's Wards... seven words of power, anyone? Naaah, that's overthinking things) make up white... as in white gold. No wonder white gold's the keystone of the Arch, then.

You've missed the Biblical importance of a rainbow.

And the Biblical significance of the number seven, meaning "completion."

dlbpharmd wrote:

I expected that the incident that made the hole in Linden's shirt would effectively be recreated in the Land.

Great point! Should've happened for Jeremiah also.

Thinking further about this, it's obvious why this didn't happen - SRD needed Linden and Jeremiah to still be alive after the collapse of the Arch.

I had hopes more than expectations. I hoped Roger would be more of a player in this game, but in the 3rd book all he did was attack with his troops and then scamper away. I also hoped he would manage to acquire white gold somehow and then use it to attack LF when he found out he was being taken for patsy in the end. Instead he used the krill, but I was pretty close on that one.

I seriously expected the story to return to the moment in the TOT when TC pushes Linden back into the 'real' world to try and save him. The reason for this is that SRD implied (somewhere in the GI, I think) that this would happen. It had to do with Linden having Covenant's ring in her hand at the end of WGW. There is no physical explanation for how this happened and, to the best of my recall, in his answer SRD makes it clear that there is a physical answer for this and that the LCs will reveal that answer (I always liked the symbolism and mystery of that detail, and I was a bit annoyed at the thought of it being messed with, which is why I remember SRD's answer).

Maybe he intended to include it and then changed his mind when the plot started to get harder and harder to bring to a quick conclusion.

Or, now that I think of it, he may have been thinking of the marriage scene where Linden and TC exchange rings.

u.

I recall that SRD said in the GI that basically Linden, in some sort of trance, got up, walked over to TC's body, and physically removed the ring. But, I can't find anything like that in the GI.

I'll be really glad when Wayfriend finally finishes TLD and joins this forum. His encyclopedic knowledge of the GI will really come in handy.

I always thought the Creator would show up in TLD.

ussusimiel wrote:I seriously expected the story to return to the moment in the TOT when TC pushes Linden back into the 'real' world to try and save him. The reason for this is that SRD implied (somewhere in the GI, I think) that this would happen. It had to do with Linden having Covenant's ring in her hand at the end of WGW. There is no physical explanation for how this happened and, to the best of my recall, in his answer SRD makes it clear that there is a physical answer for this and that the LCs will reveal that answer (I always liked the symbolism and mystery of that detail, and I was a bit annoyed at the thought of it being messed with, which is why I remember SRD's answer).

Maybe he intended to include it and then changed his mind when the plot started to get harder and harder to bring to a quick conclusion.

Or, now that I think of it, he may have been thinking of the marriage scene where Linden and TC exchange rings.

u.

Holy crap, that would have been awesome to return to that moment.

I expected a lot more interplay between fantasy/reality. Again ... the problem of dealing with dead protagonists.

I think the point of the Last Chrons was - do something they don't expect. Correct? Or no...

DoriendorCorishev wrote:When I first read some teasers about the beginning of the Last Chronicles, there was a reference to Linden's son -- my natural expectation was that it was Linden's and Covenant's son, conceived in the Land during the end of WGW (they were intimate after purging the Sunbane, IIRC).

This actually seemed like a very compelling idea. A child conceived in a land that may not exist (or at the very least doesn't exist within the same parameters as our world) and then raised in the real world. That child would never know his father (and the father would have been technically dead in the real world at the time of conception in the Land [!]). There would be great reason for that child to have a fractured mind and have some sort of nagging connection to the Land.

In fact, I'm still not entirely sure why the character of Jeremiah *couldn't* have been written as their child, to much greater depth of the story. It certainly would have given Covenant a greater connection to the character. And it may have served as a somewhat counter-example to his parentage of Elena. Almost every aspect of Jeremiah's own personality could have been the same in the story as it is written, but his PLACE in the story and his relations with the other principals could have been much more compelling.

Oh, and if he needed to be fourteen, just have 14 years pass in between the second and last Chrons instead of ten.

Damn ... another great idea. (I'm going to try to refrain from quoting everyone here and saying that. You guys have come up with some good ones.)

Zarathustra wrote:

DoriendorCorishev wrote:When I first read some teasers about the beginning of the Last Chronicles, there was a reference to Linden's son -- my natural expectation was that it was Linden's and Covenant's son, conceived in the Land during the end of WGW (they were intimate after purging the Sunbane, IIRC).

This actually seemed like a very compelling idea. A child conceived in a land that may not exist (or at the very least doesn't exist within the same parameters as our world) and then raised in the real world. That child would never know his father (and the father would have been technically dead in the real world at the time of conception in the Land [!]). There would be great reason for that child to have a fractured mind and have some sort of nagging connection to the Land.

In fact, I'm still not entirely sure why the character of Jeremiah *couldn't* have been written as their child, to much greater depth of the story. It certainly would have given Covenant a greater connection to the character. And it may have served as a somewhat counter-example to his parentage of Elena. Almost every aspect of Jeremiah's own personality could have been the same in the story as it is written, but his PLACE in the story and his relations with the other principals could have been much more compelling.

Oh, and if he needed to be fourteen, just have 14 years pass in between the second and last Chrons instead of ten.

Damn ... another great idea. (I'm going to try to refrain from quoting everyone here and saying that. You guys have come up with some good ones.)

Wouldn't that have required TC and LA to have been intimate prior to being summoned?

iQuestor wrote:I always thought the Creator would show up in TLD.

So did I. I thought he must've appeared to Jeremiah at the start of ROTE. I expected Jeremiah to reveal that.

Another expectation I had was that we would see more Ramen. Hami had such a big role in ROTE that I expected to see her again. I thought that Pahnia and Bhapa would challenge the Masters just as Mahrtiir did in FR - by summoning Ranyhyn. With that many Ranyhyn returning to the Land, Ramen would be sure to follow.

Oh well. Shows what I know.

However, I should say here that I was extremely disappointed in Bhapa for lying to the Masters. I guess it was just more of the "good can be accomplished by evil means" theme.

I expected Pahni to do something bad to Linden, or someone, or some Law.

I expected Jeremiah to make more doorways. Lots of doorways to here, there, everywhere, in space and time. In fact, if you have seen the final confrontation in the new Thor movie, you've seen what I kind of expected as the final confrontation in The Last Dark.

I expected Covenant to go back to being the TimeWarden, and Linden to become something like the LawWarden - two dead, but active defenders of the Land that together would ensure the Arch of Time was never destroyed.

I expected that Jeremiah would wake up in the 'real world' and able to speak, but with the knowledge of everything that has happened.

I expected a return to Revelstone for some reason.

I expected Foul to behave the way he did in the beginning of ROTE: kind of happy-go-lucky.

Not one F Bomb...not a one...what the..

lurch wrote:Not one F Bomb...not a one...what the..

Not even a "SUCKer"!