Kevin's Watch

Finally watched it this weekend. It was OK but the book drew me into the characters much more than the Movie did. The character development was poor, it was as if there were only 3 characters. Ender, Hyrum and Mazer and even Mazers' character was a very small part of the movie.

I understand why they would not be able to tell some of the story but I think more could have been done.

Ha! Me too. Overall it was very poorly organized, and it changed some of the major plot-points in ways that the story inconsistent. However, every once in a while it seemed to catch the light right and there was a good moment.

I thought the allusion to speaking for the dead was an interesting touch.

SoulBiter wrote: The character development was poor, it was as if there were only 3 characters. Ender, Hyrum and Mazer and even Mazers' character was a very small part of the movie.

I understand why they would not be able to tell some of the story but I think more could have been done.

Couldn't agree more.

wayfriend wrote:Ha! Me too. Overall it was very poorly organized, and it changed some of the major plot-points in ways that the story inconsistent. However, every once in a while it seemed to catch the light right and there was a good moment.

I thought the allusion to speaking for the dead was an interesting touch.

The changing (or altering the meaning of) major plot points bugged me more than anything.

The movie could have been so much better than it was. The way it turned out was just disappointing.

Though, I have to say, friends of mine who saw it and were unfamiliar with the book did enjoy the movie.

Saw this last night and it appears that I benefitted greatly by not having read the book beforehand.

I enjoyed the film - not massively, but perfectly adequately - and [obviousely] the changes made from the style and story of the book were neither apparent or obvious in their leaving of 'holes or underdevelopment' in any part of the film. My main problems were with the actors themselves. Harrison Ford's age is alas starting to tell against him and the guy who played the big drill seargent seemed wooden and amatuish at best. Ender himself was tolerably portrayed and some of the other younger cast members did show real promise. All this having been said however, the film remained a good hour and a halfs fun viewing, and I thought the special eggects and CGI were stunning [which helps make up for a lot].

Will I go and read the books now - hmmm, somehow I doubt it. Will the follow-up films be made - hmmm, somehow I doubt it.

peter wrote:Will I go and read the books now -

I could not stand the books. But I am in the minority. I think they were fine as children's adventures but for adults, they were (to me) just awful. So I didn't bother with the movie.

I'm with lorin on the books. Even though I thought the second was better than the first, it wasn't enough to get me to the third. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the movie, though, just because I assume it's visually stunning. Although I haven't seen it. heh

Fist and Faith wrote:I'm with lorin on the books. Even though I thought the second was better than the first, it wasn't enough to get me to the third. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the movie, though, just because I assume it's visually stunning. Although I haven't seen it. heh

I remember our first interaction when I was newish. I said I didn't like Dune that much. I thought you were going to reach through the virtual lines and strangle me. You were so annoyed (at least I thought you were ) Nice to be of the same opinion this time.

I'm sure I wasn't really annoyed. I even said so. I just wanted to give you a better understanding of it.

But Av said you have some sort of deficiency!!!! He's the bad guy in all this!!! Man oh man!!!

Fist and Faith wrote: But Av said you have some sort of deficiency!!!! He's the bad guy in all this!!! Man oh man!!!

Yeah, I thought I was going to get banned as a troll.

WHAT LORIN!!!! YOU DON'T LIKE DUUUNE!!!!

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peter wrote: WHAT LORIN!!!! YOU DON'T LIKE DUUUNE!!!!

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the thing about me is I am a Donaldson fan. I am not a big sci fi reader though I have read my share. I am here because of DONALDSON. Most of my reading is more reality based stuff. Too reality based. As is my writing. Which is why I don't post it here.

You're not entirely alone, lorin. Dune has flat and, IMO poorly written, characters that never really came to life. It has incredible worldbuilding, and deserves its classic status just for that, but that's about all it offered for me.

But then, what I learned reading one of the novels on this year's Hugo ballot is it's likely that for some people world building is the only thing they look for in a sci fi novel.

I'm Murrin wrote:You're not entirely alone, lorin. Dune has flat and, IMO poorly written, characters that never really came to life. It has incredible worldbuilding, and deserves its classic status just for that, but that's about all it offered for me.

But then, what I learned reading one of the novels on this year's Hugo ballot is it's likely that for some people world building is the only thing they look for in a sci fi novel.

I don't know if you are taking about Wheel of Time? I HATED that book. Man, Donaldson has ruined scifi / fantasy for me, hasn't he?

I enjoyed Ender's Game when I first read it and I still reread it now and again. It's young-adult fiction really and while I find some of the later books (e.g. Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide) also good, the simplistic nature of some of the thinking and resolutions becomes annoying after a while. (Ironically Card is an advocate for the education of gifted children, he just seems to struggle to turn his characters into gifted adults. They remain, in moral terms, stuck in some simplified black and white psychological and moral world.)

As I said upthread, having been so familiar with the book I thought that the film sucked!!! A miserable failure that managed to get so many things wrong that it probably couldn't have been worse if they tried

u.

P.S. I was also not over-impressed with Dune. A good standalone novel, but nothing that especially drew me back to read anymore.

ussusimiel wrote: P.S. I was also not over-impressed with Dune. A good standalone novel, but nothing that especially drew me back to read anymore.

They're com in' out of the closet.

I think Murrin was right on point. It was all atmosphere but I didn't own the characters.

lorin wrote:

I'm Murrin wrote:But then, what I learned reading one of the novels on this year's Hugo ballot is it's likely that for some people world building is the only thing they look for in a sci fi novel.

I don't know if you are taking about Wheel of Time? I HATED that book. Man, Donaldson has ruined scifi / fantasy for me, hasn't he?

Nah, I quite liked the WoT novels when I was a teenager. They're nothing special, and certainly not the best thing published in 2013 (only one novel on the ballot comes anywhere near that, IMO), but they're not awful and they're hugely influential if only for the sheer number of readers of the series.

No, I was referring to Charles Stross' novel, which presented a very clever and detailed depiction of a far, far future robot society, but failed to interest me on a writing or character level to the point that I gave up on it (and I never fail to finish a novel, usually. (And Stross is good! I've not read much of his but I've enjoyed it. Shame about this one.)

Anyway, I figure I've strayed far enough off topic, I'll let folks with an opinion about Ender's Game get back to it. All I can say on that is that I won't do anything deliberately that earns Orson Scott Card a single penny.

Just finished my yearly read of Ender's Game and decided to watch the film again, just to give it one more chance.

This time I watched the film for what it was rather than what I wanted it to be, and it still managed to be a fairly epic fail. As has been mentioned upthread a couple of the casting decisions were absolutely dire. Bonzo and Dap were just awful (the guy who plays Dap is in Game of Thrones, so he can actually act).

The fight scene where Bonzo and Ender square off against each other is ridiculous. Ender is a good half-a-foot taller than Bonzo, if it is meant to look like an unfair fight it just doesn't work. The scene makes it look like Ender has at least some advantages.

The relationship between Petra and Ender is played up a good bit but then just dropped at the end. Peter and Valentine are almost completely absent from the film. The best bits are still the CGI computer game and the space battles. The Battleroom has some good moments, but it's generally a wasted opportunity. I think that it's transparent is a big part of the problem. It's very hard to maintain a perspective and there's just too much visuals all the time.

Watching the movie again what I think happened is that the bare-bones-plot from the book was used to try and make a mixed-genre film. The director/screenwriters etc. tried to make a children's coming-of-age movie (a-la-Harry-Potter) in a military bootcamp setting. The Battleroom is reduced to the score-keeping game element of Qudditch. Dap acts like a Sgt. Major and then salutes Ender when he is promoted in what feels like minutes later. It's a fairly unholy mess really.

Watching the movie again made me very aware of how rushed the whole thing is, and how much is skipped over or cut out. The movie definitely needed either needed to be at least an hour longer, or it needed to be two movies rather than one.

u.

It was trying too hard to appeal to the YA audience at the expense of the source material.

Agreed, Cail. While Card may have overestimated how adult his gifted children actually come across as, within the story in the novel they are fully empowered within the adult world and actually come to control and shape it (e.g. Peter and Valentine as Locke and Demosthenes).

u.