Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:55 pm**

I have read some similar things in reviews and am still in two minds somewhat (although strongly leaning towards reading them).

If I am disappointed then I guess they get donated and next time I get round to a re-read it will only be 6 books.

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:18 pm**

Oh, go ahead and read them. Form your own opinion.

They were not my favorite of SRD's works by a long shot, but worth giving a shot.

(Being the SRD fan I am, there was never a question that I wouldn't give them a shot. But that's me.)

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:32 pm**

And now, for my counter points

Zarathustra wrote: It's not just the anti-climactic, jump-the-shark, too-easy ending.

I think if you can accept Foul being defeated in the First Chronicles by being laughed at, there is not much one can do to "jump-the-shark" or be "more easy".

There are 200 page spans where the characters do nothing but sit in one spot and recover from trials, while feeling angst-y

. First Chronicles, anyone? They stayed in Revelstone forever in The Illearth War, just so Covenant could continue to be emo, and further he wonders about later in a fugue saying, "Hate?" repeatedly. Characters feeling angsty is pretty much a part of the Covenant series, so it's not really a reason to avoid the Last.

There are plot mechanics that are contrived for the sole purpose of keeping the reader ignorant in order to shock and awe later ... reasons that strain credulity in terms of the story itself, and blatantly call attention to the author's manipulation of the audience. There is a bewildering host of "bad guys," most of them largely off-screen for most of the time, and not a single one of which has a satisfying resolution to the conflict they add to the story, thus needlessly complicating things for sheer effect.

How often is Foul in any of these books? Hmmmm... how often are the "good guys" actually engaging "big baddies" and not "cannon fodder"? How often are things actually very convenient? Oh, this Forest happens to kill Giant Ravers, Oh, Foul was angry and spent himself blasting Covenant when all he needed to do was sigh and say get the fudge out of here!

Essentially, the point I'm making is that it really is not clear cut if it is bad or good (based on online review sites like Amazon and Goodreads, it's actually a four-star series!). There really is no "objectiveness" as to it being bad...any less then the previous ones being objectively good or bad.

So like Mary said, you'll just have to form your own opinion. We all ready have ours

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:24 pm**

They're on my reading list anyway. Having discussed a lot of books recently, I think I already know I'm reading immediately after my re-read of the second chronicles.

Definitely The Blind Watchmaker, and possibly Wuthering Heights. After that I'll probably take a trip to Barnes and Noble one lunchtime and see if they have the who tetralogy.

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:33 am**

Well, for what it's worth, I mostly enjoyed them. I also enjoyed them more on subsequent reads than I did on the first one, with the possible exception of AATE, my personal favourite of the four.

You have to read them of course.

How can you not?

--A

Posted: **Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:23 pm**

Avatar wrote:You have to read them of course. How can you not?

--A

Precisely!

Posted: **Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:50 am**

The most important point michaelm, is whether the reading of them will detract from your existing love of the Chrons. There is a significant risk that it will [although the opposit may also occur]. For me, I would [if I could] un-read The Last Chrons, because they have detracted from my love of the Chrons as a whole. But this is the risk you take and in the end the decission is yours.

Posted: **Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:21 pm**

peter wrote:The most important point michaelm, is whether the reading of them will detract from your existing love of the Chrons. There is a significant risk that it will [although the opposit may also occur]. For me, I would [if I could] un-read The Last Chrons, because they have detracted from my love of the Chrons as a whole. But this is the risk you take and in the end the decission is yours.

Seriously? WHY?!? I mean, I can understand it in some situations. It depends, I'd say, on the structure of the group...if the entire "set" depends on the end of the last piece, sure. But this series can easily be looked at as self-contained. Each segment has a definite ending. You don't have to take them as a single 10-volume thing if you don't want to.
To me what you said is kinda like saying, "yea, I have 3 kids, but the last one went bad, so now I just don't love the other 2 as much anymore."

[[I'm not saying you can't/don't/shouldn't feel that way...it's just strange to me.]]

Posted: **Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:57 pm**

peter wrote:The most important point michaelm, is whether the reading of them will detract from your existing love of the Chrons. There is a significant risk that it will [although the opposit may also occur]. For me, I would [if I could] un-read The Last Chrons, because they have detracted from my love of the Chrons as a whole. But this is the risk you take and in the end the decission is yours.

peter, the most significant risk michaelm faces is that all the negativity that was volunteered at him causes him to dislike something he would have otherwise liked. Why anyone would do that is beyond me -- I don't fathom the sadistic mind.

Posted: **Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:17 pm**

wayfriend wrote: peter, the most significant risk michaelm faces is that all the negativity that was volunteered at him causes him to dislike something he would have otherwise liked. Why anyone would do that is beyond me -- I don't fathom the sadistic mind.

That is a risk. Especially since he was ALREADY obviously approaching it with trepidation...or wouldn't have asked whether he should approach it that way.
Normally, I'd agree with the not understanding the sadistic. But, well, UNLIKE many "they asked for it" situations...he really DID "ask for it."

Personally, I liked them quite a lot so obviously think they're worth it.
In addition to that...even IF I agreed with much of the criticism...even IF that criticism were objectively true, they would STILL be a better choice than about 90% of the OTHER available genre works.
[and, as I said in previous...I don't get the 'it ruined the whole series" idea.]

Posted: **Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:06 pm**

michaelm - just read them! I loved all the last chronicles. Don't let the cynics put you off!! I am proud to have SRD's signature on the front page of TLD.

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:33 pm**

Iolanthe wrote:michaelm - just read them! I loved all the last chronicles. Don't let the cynics put you off!! I am proud to have SRD's signature on the front page of TLD.

I'm pretty sure I'll do it now.

I know I'm going to read a few non-Donaldson books after I finish the second chronicles (I'm towards the end of TWL right now), but I will get these as soon as I've got through my short list of other books.

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:01 pm**

Don't let the cynics put you off!!

peter, the most significant risk michaelm faces is that all the negativity that was volunteered at him causes him to dislike something he would have otherwise liked. Why anyone would do that is beyond me -- I don't fathom the sadistic mind.

So people who didn't like the LC are sadists and cynics???

I don't understand the mind of someone who has to insult people who have a different opinion than they do about a novel(s). As Vraith pointed out, Michael ASKED for our opinion! Why is it proper for people who liked it to reply, but if others are honest in giving their opinions, you have to invent psychological disorders to explain the difference?? It's insulting bullshit. I'm not a sadist for telling the truth about my literary preferences. All you're doing is dehumanizing people that you disagree with, characterizing them as sick or disturbed or otherwise unworthy, because you can't control their opinions, but you want to shut down their criticism nonetheless.

My opinion isn't a character flaw, and I'm sick of having it portrayed that way. I'm tired of the a thin-skinned fanboys who can't stand for this mediocre money-grab to be disparaged.

This site is dying. I'm finally starting to think maybe that's just fine.

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:42 pm**

Zarathustra wrote:
Don't let the cynics put you off!!

peter, the most significant risk michaelm faces is that all the negativity that was volunteered at him causes him to dislike something he would have otherwise liked. Why anyone would do that is beyond me -- I don't fathom the sadistic mind.

So people who didn't like the LC are sadists and cynics???

I don't understand the mind of someone who has to insult people who have a different opinion than they do about a novel(s).................I'm tired of the a thin-skinned fanboys who can't stand for this mediocre money-grab to be disparaged.

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:52 pm**

Iolanthe wrote:

otoi

Posted: **Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:44 pm**

Posted: **Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:42 am**

Clearly, the Last Chrons are somewhat polarizing.

But let's not start a flame war in here, okay?

Z, there's no need to take anything personally. You're not the only person to have posted critical comments about the books in this thread -- please see Jay's posts on page 1, and peter's comment near the top of this page.

Posted: **Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:54 am**

Good morning michaelm. I get the feeling that I'm missing something - the above posts seem disjointed. I thought a lot about what Z said when I went to bed last night.

You asked a question that was always going to get some emotional responses. The nature of the Chronicles demands an emotional involvement, or perhaps an emotional investment, therefore the disappointment or satisfaction that was felt has sometimes been expressed in very emotional terms. I admit I am as guilty as the next man. I withdraw the word "cynical"; although I don't see cynicism as a psycological disorder it doesn't mean what I intended to say.

My main beef is that among the writings of a few of those who were disappointed there has been the implication that those of us who did like the Last Chronicles were deficient in our ability to evaluate what we were reading. There have been endless discussions on all aspects of this elsewhere.

So, michaelm, it's entirely up to you. Your reaction to the books will be entirely your own. Let us know if you do read them whether you enjoyed them or not, and why.

Way, I don't understand the Troll thing. Please explain!

Frosty, you've lost your "t". You're "Frosy"! Nice ponies.

Posted: **Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:03 am**

Z, I understand your reaction. I think to characterise people's reaction to the LCs as 'sadistic' (especially in a thread where the OP specifically mentions 'trepidation' regarding them)

michaelm wrote:Without giving any spoilers, what are your thoughts on the final chronicles compared to the first and second - should I just read them because they are TC books, or should I approach them with trepidation?

is grossly unfair, and unhelpful. As I have been a consistent critic of the LCs, I felt it personally too, however I chose not to respond because it is so clearly untrue, that I know that no one would make the mistake of considering me personally sadistic.

We have been making big efforts since the E'fest to re-energise the Watch. Encouraging a wider variety of opinion and involvement has been the aim. Anything that discourages people from participating is unhelpful and preferably to be avoided.

I, personally, value your contribution all across the Watch and would be saddened to see it reduced in any way. It is exactly the opposite that we want to see from everyone who is a current active member.

u.

Posted: **Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:12 am**

peter wrote:The most important point michaelm, is whether the reading of them will detract from your existing love of the Chrons. There is a significant risk that it will [although the opposit may also occur]. For me, I would [if I could] un-read The Last Chrons, because they have detracted from my love of the Chrons as a whole. But this is the risk you take and in the end the decission is yours.

An apparently unpopular opinion Peter, and one I wish I didn't have to share.

It's hard for me to overlook the sorry fact that the fascinating, thought-provoking, moving, seemingly complete original 2-series story is unnecessarily diminished by the 4 muddled efforts which comprise the LC.

Kevin's Watch

The Last Chronicles - worth it?

The Last Chronicles - worth it?