Kevin's Watch

hashi - well some of us don't trust that the government will stop at banning/regulating one type of gun - mainly because the ones who are on that side of the aisle have made it known they wish to ban all types of guns.

With one act of pure stupidity this child's whole world has changed. Why are children touching guns? They cannot smoke a cigarette, they cannot pick up a drink, they cannot drive a car so why are they permitted to pick up an uzi? Stupidity, plain and simple.

Her life will never be the same.

I'm in agreement with the rest of y'all. Why the instructor thought it was a good idea to hand a 9-year-old an Uzi is beyond me. And yes, Darwinism triumphed.

But that poor little girl. I agree with lorin -- her life will never be the same.

I heard the owner of the shooting range interviewed on UK radio yesterday. He claimed that what had occurred was yes, absolutely tragic but that it was no more noteworthy than any other industrial or workplace accident.

Do you guys think that any sort of restrictive legislation will ensue? Frankly and like everyone else, I'm literally staggered that a) parents should think it a good idea to get a nine year old to fire an Uzi on full automatic mode and that b) a trained firearms handler should have concurred... but whether such mindless idiocy is prevalent enough to demand some sort of "cater for the morons" legislation, I don't know.

And yes, my biggest sympathy lies with that poor kid.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Despite what some people will want there will be no new legislative responses to this girl's tragedy. Trying to ban children from gun ranges will result in some parents taking their children out into the country and letting them shoot guns there with even less supervision that they would receive at a licensed gun range. What will happen, though, is that all gun ranges will tighten their safety measures and there are certain classes of guns they will no longer allow children to fire.

Some overzealous prosecutor or politician might try to sue the parents and they will probably be used as examples as to why more gun controls are needed but this will be only a thinly-veiled attempt to harumpf for votes.

"to harumpf". It's from Blazing Saddles, of course. It is an active transitive verb meaning "to complain loudly about some issue in an attempt to get people to vote or otherwise take action due to an emotional response".

It would be nice if other parents would look at what happened and realize that their kid just simply isn't ready for that kind of weapon and stick to pellet guns for a few more years.

However, given the amount of people around here that still leave their kids and dogs in the car for a few hours on a hot summer day, I don't have much hope of people learning any kind of lesson from this either.

Wildling wrote:However, given the amount of people around here that still leave their kids and dogs in the car for a few hours on a hot summer day, I don't have much hope of people learning any kind of lesson from this either.

Some people never learn anything.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Some overzealous prosecutor or politician might try to sue the parents and they will probably be used as examples as to why more gun controls are needed but this will be only a thinly-veiled attempt to harumpf for votes.

"to harumpf". It's from Blazing Saddles, of course. It is an active transitive verb meaning "to complain loudly about some issue in an attempt to get people to vote or otherwise take action due to an emotional response".

I think you'll find that the perfectly serviceable English verb is spelled "harrumph". Now I know that doubled consonants and "ph" combos for an "f" sound are difficult for you Americans to get your heads around, but really...



Here's a completely dispassionate and scientifically methodological screenshot from Googlefight.com proving my point. (And no I have no idea why that site is now permanently defaulting to French, but what the heck...)

TheFallen wrote:I.

Do you guys think that any sort of restrictive legislation will ensue?

you can't fix stupid and you shouldn't punish the responsible for what happens to those stupid people.

if we allow legislative fixes for every outrage you end up with parents being taken out of the equation.

kids learn gun safety by using guns safely. kids turn into adults who use guns safely.

morons will always abuse the rights the rest of us enjoy.

sgt.null wrote: morons will always abuse the rights the rest of us enjoy.

You're so harsh always, Nullo. The parents and instructor weren't abusing rights, they were just making very poor decisions. If this were a story about a fat man who died from complications due to being fat, not taking care of himself and so, would you still be so harsh? Afterall, that is way more foolish than a momentary lapse like handing a kid a gun she can't handle. It is a choice that lasts for years and is made every day. Have you ever made some stupid choices, Nullo? Or, is it just these other morons who make bad decisions?

ananda - none of my bad choices cost someone their life. and I will continue to condemn idiots who give children automatic weapons or lock those kids in hot cars to die.

we need to stop prancing around the issue and get back to shaming the worst of our people.

it enrages me when a kid gets ahold of a gun and kills themselves or others and the weak willed amongst us blather... "why prosecute the parent, they lost so much already."

bull. you do something idiotic that leads to someone's death you should pay a price.

if it were me and I was the DA I would charge the two parents of that nine year old with at least reckless endangerment and began proceedings to have her removed from their charge. their utter lack of parenting ability cost a man his life (or I would be charging him as well) and scarred their child for however long.

just as I would charge every parent who "forgets" their child in a car.

how many dead kids does it take to do something? this isn't some esoteric thing. the "bad choices" of these parents lead to a direct action with horrific consequences.

we get more outraged when someone abuses an animal. (and I love animals.)

sgt.null wrote:ananda - none of my bad choices cost someone their life. and I will continue to condemn idiots who give children automatic weapons or lock those kids in hot cars to die.

we need to stop prancing around the issue and get back to shaming the worst of our people.

Your poor choices will cost you your life, actually. And, before that, your health.

Shaming people? Should we start with you or is that reserved for other people only? I am not christian, but I remeber this thing about stones and who should cast the first one.

Ananda wrote:Your poor choices will cost you your life, actually. And, before that, your health.

Not necessary to the discussion.

It is beyond me how a child of 9 is legally permitted to touch a gun, a lethal weapon. I may be wrong here and I am sure I will be corrected if I am, but if we do not allow a child of 9 to drive a car or drink a beer, why in heavens name do we allow a baby to handle a gun? A 9 year old is a baby. I can understand training a teen if that is the orientation of the parents but why a 9 year old? Its disgusting, stupid parenting(if you choose to call it that), BUT it is legal (I guess) and therefore there is nothing to be done to these parents.

Agree Lorin.

Stupidity and ignorance is still not illegal.

Ananda wrote:

sgt.null wrote:ananda - none of my bad choices cost someone their life. and I will continue to condemn idiots who give children automatic weapons or lock those kids in hot cars to die.

we need to stop prancing around the issue and get back to shaming the worst of our people.

Your poor choices will cost you your life, actually. And, before that, your health.

Shaming people? Should we start with you or is that reserved for other people only? I am not christian, but I remember this thing about stones and who should cast the first one.

well you have shown me the light. nothing needs to illegal anymore, since everyone can just work out their own punishment. I'm sure that everything will turn out just hunky-dory. why have courts, why have police.

and when someone causes the death of another we can rest assured that the culprits will feel really bad about. and the rapists and muggers and robbers will just quit doing evil because it weighs heavy on them.

sarcasm off now...

I may be wrong, but I'm rather certain that the bible has lots to say about crime and punishment.

and even without religion how can one advocate against punishing wrongdoers? how did we get so backwards as a people that we obsess over the rights of the criminal and forget the victims?

Ananda wrote: Your poor choices will cost you your life, actually. And, before that, your health.

Shaming people? Should we start with you or is that reserved for other people only? I am not christian, but I remeber this thing about stones and who should cast the first one.

A person's poor choices which negatively impact only them are not only acceptable but allowable. If I want to start smoking a pack a day again then I don't have to answer to anyone except my wife. If I choose to engage in some harder chemical entertainment then I don't have to answer to anyone as long as I don't get caught by the police, drive under that influence, or come to work under that influence.

If my poor choice results in a negative consequence to someone else then I deserve all the public humiliation and/or legal consequences which will come my way. In this instance, it was only luck which saved the child's life yet resulted in the death of the instructor so the parents willingly put the child into a position where severe harm could result and reckless endangerment is a crime. The potential to charge them with a crime is there. I wouldn't recommend that because it won't solve anything but I suppose it could serve a lesson to other parents about which poor decisions they should not make.

If you aren't a Christian, Ananda, then why are you trying to use a lesson from the Bible in a directed manner towards Sarge?

Null wrote:we need to stop prancing around the issue and get back to shaming the worst of our people.

it enrages me when a kid gets ahold of a gun and kills themselves or others and the weak willed amongst us blather... "why prosecute the parent, they lost so much already."

bull. you do something idiotic that leads to someone's death you should pay a price.

if it were me and I was the DA I would charge the two parents of that nine year old with at least reckless endangerment and began proceedings to have her removed from their charge. their utter lack of parenting ability cost a man his life (or I would be charging him as well) and scarred their child for however long.

just as I would charge every parent who "forgets" their child in a car.

how many dead kids does it take to do something? this isn't some esoteric thing. the "bad choices" of these parents lead to a direct action with horrific consequences.

We rarely agree on much Null, but the above I'm wholly in step with you on: good post.