Kevin's Watch

Although I don't really see any similarities between Pressfield and Gemmell, I would second the recommendation for Gates of Fire. A very exciting rendition of the Spartans' last stand at Thermopylae against overwhelming hordes of Persians. Outstanding historical fiction.

As my only exposure to Gemmel was through "Legend" you'll have to pardon the comparison. I was not comparing Pressfield himself to Gemmel but rather "Gates" to "Legend". They are both gritty depictions of warriors who are fighting a battle against overwhelming odds. I must admit I'm an unabashed fan of "Gates" and judge it to be one of finest pieces of literature I have ever read. Your thoughts Gunslinger?

I went book shopping yesterday, but I forgot to make a note of that name I'll have to get it from Amazon or something. I came back from the bookshop with Neverwhere by Niel Gaiman (recommended by Ermingard), the first two volumes of the Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe (Syl recommends Wolfe) and the first Rigante book

Brinn, I wouldn't rate Gates of Fire as high as you do, but as I said, definitely outstanding historical fiction.

My favorite historical fiction novels are the better ones of Wilbur Smith, and Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond Chronicle.

I'm also partial to George MacDonald Fraser's Flashman novels and Bernard Cornwell's Richard Sharpe series.

These four authors (and yes, I suppose, Pressfield, too) do the best combination of both research and story-telling. Some writers can do one or the other - the great writers do both.

David Gemmell?? *peers over to bookcase* he's wonderfull. I especially like waylander out of all his books, there is just something there that i find unfathonable.

Just a quick note... If you get the chance, read the Rigante Series. Though I had issues with Sword in the Storm, Midnight Falcon (its sequel) was excellent. Bane of the Rigante is the classic conflicted character, and in the end redeems himself from his foolish life.


-B

I adore Gemmel's stuff. Okay, it's not written in any wonderfully prosaic style, characterisation is minimal (although we do seem to find out an awful lot about the characters nonetheless), and occasionally, things just seem to happen too quickly and/or too coincidentally, but they are first class fantasy action/adventure books, and unlike some books, they don;t go into intricate details for pages and pages over the contents of somebody's forge ... (now, I wonder which books they could be... )

I particularly like the concept of the 30, priests who pursue lives of utter peace until called upon to face down evil. They do not put aside their ways of peace, but come rather to an understanding that they must resist this evil. Great guys; put me in mind of the Bhuddist Shaolin Monks, or the Haruchai!

Bumped, to see if my fellow Gemmell fan, Avatar, has anything to add

Sure I've got things to add, (I'm chronically verbose) and thanks for thinking of me Cj

I really like Gemmel, but I think I prefer his earlier books. Haven't really kept up with the Rigante series, although I'll get around to it sometime.

Cj, you can't go wrong with Neverwhere, it's one of my all time favourites. It's especially good if you know London. Look for Roofworld by Christopher Fowler if you like it.

The first Gemmel I read was Lion of Macedon, which also deals with the Spartans. The sequel, Dark Prince, is mainly about Alexander the Great, but has scenes from Thermopylae as well, in an "Alternate Reality" style. I like historically based books, and am particularly interested in strategy and tactics, which he goes into quite well in these.

Personally, I really liked Legend, and equally enjoyed the Prequels. It's easy, fast and fun reading. Once you're into the first one, it great to go back and see how Druss became the man he did.

The series about the Sipstrassi stones is also a favourite, especially as they're partly stand-alones, and partly interconnected. I particularly like the way that he recharacterises the Authurian legend in Ghost King and Last Sword of Power

Wasn't too keen on the Ironhands Daughter series, but I sure loved Waylander. Despite the fairly simple nature of his writing, and the relative lack of complexity in his stories, I admire the way he can turn a phrase, or a paragraph, so that reading it almost gives you a chill. Good clean heroic fantasy at its best.

The Jerusalem Man series with Jon Shannow was probably his most complex in terms of characterisation, and I enjoyed them too. Love that sort of post-apocalyptic epic, and the subtle touches of magic, which, as Cj said, are never showy, but are still effective.

All definitley worth a read if you haven't, but I suggest reading the back of the book in the shop, and finding out if it's going to be a story that you like.
There are a few that I didn't really like, mainly stand-alones like Echoes of the Great Song Not that theres anything wrong with it, but it's not worth more than 1 or 2 re-reads. Liked Winter Warriors though, and really love the ones about the Thirty. I half enjoy the timeline variations, where you see that in one book, the Thirty are a reality, and in another, they are a fading legend which is re-created.

Have I added enough for you Cj? I'll be back once I think of a few more comments. Have a good one
--Avatar

Yes, you have added admirably

Avatar wrote:The first Gemmel I read was Lion of Macedon, which also deals with the Spartans. The sequel, Dark Prince, is mainly about Alexander the Great, but has scenes from Thermopylae as well, in an "Alternate Reality" style. I like historically based books, and am particularly interested in strategy and tactics, which he goes into quite well in these.

I've never read Lion of Macedon, but I love Dark Prince. Parmenion is the man Heh.

Avatar wrote:Personally, I really liked Legend, and equally enjoyed the Prequels. It's easy, fast and fun reading. Once you're into the first one, it great to go back and see how Druss became the man he did.

Indeed, they seem to add considerably more depth to the character, and it was interesting to see the establishment of the legend.

Avatar wrote:The series about the Sipstrassi stones is also a favourite, especially as they're partly stand-alones, and partly interconnected. I particularly like the way that he recharacterises the Authurian legend in Ghost King and Last Sword of Power

Sipstrassi seems to appear in a lot of unconnected books, which I find quite intriguing. I either Ghost King or Last Sword in my school days, and though not one of my favourites, I remember it being enjoyable. I should re-read it one day.

Avatar wrote:I half enjoy the timeline variations, where you see that in one book, the Thirty are a reality, and in another, they are a fading legend which is re-created.

Yes, I've had some amusement (and headaches) trying to put every book in its correct time period. Dros Delnoch is a good reference point, since it's mentioned so frequently throughout the Drenai novels. [/quote]

It can be a bugger trying to get the pasting of the "quote" code in the right place.

Defintely re-read those, I think they're actually pretty good. And do yourself a favour, read Lion, it really enhances Dark Prince to understand the story of Parmenion.

How did you enjoy Neverwhere?

--A

Yes, I accidentally pasted a quote thing in the wrong place All sorted now (I think).

Neverwhere is still half-read. I found it started to drag pretty quickly. I'll try it again at some point, but first I have to finish The Drawing of the Three, start on the first Rigante book and take another stab at Lord of the Rings

Damn, I wish I could get hold of a copy of Neverwhere, it really blew my mind. Great concept, and I could easily imagine it, especially knowing the places in London that it talks about. (I lived there for a couple of years) RoofWorld, which I mentioned, is similar in the concept of a "secret" London, but not "magical" per se

As for The Dark Tower series, best S.K ever IMO.
Just waiting for 5 & 6 to come out in softcover to bring my collection up to date.

Hey, CovenantJr and Avatar, I'm a Gemmell fan too!

I enjoy all of Gemmell's books: the Druss books, Waylander books, and Jon Shannow books in particular.

He's a good read. And I absolutely love his use of the flawed hero--it makes it all the more inspiring when they manage to overcome their flaws and save the day. Also, if you pay close attention, Gemmell puts a lot more into his books than meets the eye...

Oh, and here's what Stephen R. Donaldson said in a blurb about Gemmell's last Waylander novel:

"On the surface, David Gemmell's Hero in the Shadows has everything a fan of heroic fantasy could desire: dramatic heroes, an exotic sorceress, deep evil, mood-drenched settings, an array of likeable characters, and a well-designed plot. But the book also has something more, a quality that raises Gemmell's achievement to a much higher level: an emphatic and convincing grasp on the complexities and conflicts of real human beings. As a result, Hero in the Shadows has true power and poignancy."

Hey Aunflin! Nice to see you get around the web

Im a gemmell fan too btw...:p

Ah, our numbers are growing!

Aunflin wrote:Oh, and here's what Stephen R. Donaldson said in a blurb about Gemmell's last Waylander novel:

"On the surface, David Gemmell's Hero in the Shadows has everything a fan of heroic fantasy could desire: dramatic heroes, an exotic sorceress, deep evil, mood-drenched settings, an array of likeable characters, and a well-designed plot. But the book also has something more, a quality that raises Gemmell's achievement to a much higher level: an emphatic and convincing grasp on the complexities and conflicts of real human beings. As a result, Hero in the Shadows has true power and poignancy."

I haven't read the new Waylander... I really should. Waylander is among my favourite Gemmell characters, possibly the favourite, though it's a close-run thing between him and Shannow.

Yes, once one person admits it, the rest start crawling out of the woodwork!

I really haven't kept up. Started to fall behind once the Rigante series started, and haven't gotten around to making up for lost time.

Later
--Avatar

There are so many I haven't read, actually. I have a habit of spending more time re-reading old favourites than reading new (to me) books. Hence I've read the full Shannow series about three times, Knights of Dark Renown four or five, Waylander similar, Dark Moon two or three...etc

Gil galad wrote:Hey Aunflin! Nice to see you get around the web

Im a gemmell fan too btw...:p

Hey thanks, Gil galad!