I think maybe her feelings of "unreality" are supposed to be her primary weakness.
She's stunningly gorgeous, but has no sense of self--she doesn't have low self-esteem, she has NO self-esteem, because she's been absolutely convinced that she's a zero, a non-entity. Her person is only defined by the amount of space her body takes up, which is why her episodes of "fading" are so horrible--she keeps expecting to disappear physically because as far as her personality goes, there's no there there. (Which, Gertrude Stein would tell you, makes her much like Oklahoma. Sorry, Oklahomans.)
Obviously, she has a personality, or she wouldn't be able to do what she does when she gets to Mordant, but I think that her utter lack of person-hood is meant as a much more significant flaw than childbirthing hips or crooked teeth would be. The lack of person-hood makes her a blank slate when she gets to Mordant. Because she's gorgeous, everyone wants to, uhm, write on her.
In some ways I almost think she HAS to be gorgeous, or nobody would care an iota about her when she gets to Mordant--she's too much of a nothing.
Terisa and Geraden - Was it a good love story?
Moderator: Cord Hurn
Yes, but that's exactly what annoys me, in a way. I nearly opened a thread with the title: What would have happened if Terisa wasn't so gorgeous?
First of all, Eremis would have killed her at the beginning...
I know what you mean, Myste.
But this is an extremely difficult and (in my eyes) abstract thing SRD is trying to convey here. Because it seems like a very...unusual problem. Of course, it's extremely superficial to say "She's so beautiful, what's her problem?". I'm absolutely aware of that. But even if she wasn't beautiful her 'symptoms' were difficult to identify with (for me).
That sense of fading away, or what it's called - I know that people with traumatic experiences often feel that way. It's a way for the soul to cope with extreme pain or fear. The extreme would be the development of a multiple personality, I guess. But it's just very hard to imagine this feeling for me, especially as everybody seems to notice her because of her beauty. And if her inner emptiness is so appalling, why isn't it appalling to people in Mordant? THEY seem to notice her, not only the men. Elega doesn't believe in her real weakness at first, neither do Myste, Joyse and Geraden. Only Eremis seems to know her for what she is...but that's because he doesn't believe in her existence at all (or does he?).
It would seem more plausible to me if Terisa identified totally with her outer beauty, if she became extremely superficial or filled her void with every kind of confirmation she could get from the outside. And she could get at least SOME (even a lot) of confirmation. The fact that she is so totally isolated and that nobody seems to notice her is not very credible. I imagine a woman like her to have a lot of unhappy love affairs, to develop dependences or even addictions. It would seem more logical to me than her sense of fading. Maybe, if she had developed some kind of phobia, that would be different...
Another thing is that she is aware of her beauty. She knows her body and face look perfect. Her self-perception is extremely realistic (or maybe I'm confusing Terisa's voice with that of the narrator now?).
I don't know, maybe it's MY problem that I find it hard to really get into her skin or head, at least in the beginning. I think I understand her better the older I get, but it's still not easy.
But then I also had problems understanding Thomas or Linden...
Sorry, if I'm confusing things now...this is just from memory.
First of all, Eremis would have killed her at the beginning...
I know what you mean, Myste.
But this is an extremely difficult and (in my eyes) abstract thing SRD is trying to convey here. Because it seems like a very...unusual problem. Of course, it's extremely superficial to say "She's so beautiful, what's her problem?". I'm absolutely aware of that. But even if she wasn't beautiful her 'symptoms' were difficult to identify with (for me).
That sense of fading away, or what it's called - I know that people with traumatic experiences often feel that way. It's a way for the soul to cope with extreme pain or fear. The extreme would be the development of a multiple personality, I guess. But it's just very hard to imagine this feeling for me, especially as everybody seems to notice her because of her beauty. And if her inner emptiness is so appalling, why isn't it appalling to people in Mordant? THEY seem to notice her, not only the men. Elega doesn't believe in her real weakness at first, neither do Myste, Joyse and Geraden. Only Eremis seems to know her for what she is...but that's because he doesn't believe in her existence at all (or does he?).
It would seem more plausible to me if Terisa identified totally with her outer beauty, if she became extremely superficial or filled her void with every kind of confirmation she could get from the outside. And she could get at least SOME (even a lot) of confirmation. The fact that she is so totally isolated and that nobody seems to notice her is not very credible. I imagine a woman like her to have a lot of unhappy love affairs, to develop dependences or even addictions. It would seem more logical to me than her sense of fading. Maybe, if she had developed some kind of phobia, that would be different...
Another thing is that she is aware of her beauty. She knows her body and face look perfect. Her self-perception is extremely realistic (or maybe I'm confusing Terisa's voice with that of the narrator now?).
I don't know, maybe it's MY problem that I find it hard to really get into her skin or head, at least in the beginning. I think I understand her better the older I get, but it's still not easy.
But then I also had problems understanding Thomas or Linden...
Sorry, if I'm confusing things now...this is just from memory.
I see what you're saying...but remember the descriptions of Terisa at the very beginning, before she goes to Mordant. It's not that people don't notice that she's attractive--it's that she doesn't notice that they notice.
I also think that not as many people notice her in our world as they do in Mordant because when she lived in our world, (I'm paraphrasing) "she wore the clothes her father chose for her, demure skirts and blazers" in boring colors that blend in with the background. On the day we actually see her in our world, It's pouring down rain, she's wearing an overcoat and a plastic bonnet. Not exactly ha-cha-cha.
When she gets to Mordant, she demands attention because of the manner of her arrival. Everyone's so astonished that she appeared out of a mirror (that she couldn't be seen in) that they don't worry about the fact that she's wearing flannel and courduroy. Saddith alludes to it, and the dressmaker comments on it, but everyone else is just astonished by the implications of Terisa's arrival. She, in turn, is affected by their interest, and starts to discover that her actions have meaning for the first time in her life.
I think that if Terisa had been just as gorgeous, and just as much of a non-entity, but born in Mordant (let's say as a Lady, a woman of rank equal to what she earns for herself), she would have been married off at the earliest opportunity to a man exactly like her father. And no one would have paid any attention.
I also think that not as many people notice her in our world as they do in Mordant because when she lived in our world, (I'm paraphrasing) "she wore the clothes her father chose for her, demure skirts and blazers" in boring colors that blend in with the background. On the day we actually see her in our world, It's pouring down rain, she's wearing an overcoat and a plastic bonnet. Not exactly ha-cha-cha.
When she gets to Mordant, she demands attention because of the manner of her arrival. Everyone's so astonished that she appeared out of a mirror (that she couldn't be seen in) that they don't worry about the fact that she's wearing flannel and courduroy. Saddith alludes to it, and the dressmaker comments on it, but everyone else is just astonished by the implications of Terisa's arrival. She, in turn, is affected by their interest, and starts to discover that her actions have meaning for the first time in her life.
I think that if Terisa had been just as gorgeous, and just as much of a non-entity, but born in Mordant (let's say as a Lady, a woman of rank equal to what she earns for herself), she would have been married off at the earliest opportunity to a man exactly like her father. And no one would have paid any attention.
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
heh, she's right... 
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MsMary
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I think that Terisa's beauty was central to the story, together with her doubt about her own "existance." If she had not been beautiful, I doubt she would have attracted as much interest in Mordant, even keeping in mind the manner of her arrival.
Just my two cents worth.
~MsMary~
Only Eremis seems to know her for what she is...but that's because he doesn't believe in her existence at all (or does he?).
Spoiler
I don't think that statement is true at all. First of all, I don't believe Eremis knows her for what she is. He thinks he knows, and refines his opinion based on how she acts throughout the story, but he never really knows her.
Second of all, Eremis definitely believes in Terisa's existance. He knows that images are real, and in fact participates in translating himself and others from place to place. But he pretends to think the images are not real in order to confuse the other Imagers, and especially to confuse Geraden and Terisa about their talents.
Second of all, Eremis definitely believes in Terisa's existance. He knows that images are real, and in fact participates in translating himself and others from place to place. But he pretends to think the images are not real in order to confuse the other Imagers, and especially to confuse Geraden and Terisa about their talents.
~MsMary~
"The Cheat is GROUNDED! We had that lightswitch installed for you so you could turn the lights on and off, not so you could throw lightswitch raves!"
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It is one on my all time fantasy/romantic novels - though Michael Moorcock comes close (in terms of romanticism) with his "Dancers at the End of Time" trilogy. Also very romantic in my eyes.
These novels takes SRD's general theme of "What makes us human" and reverses it. In a mind-boggling distant future where everyone is pretty much all-powerful - and yet somehow out of touch with being human, the quest seems to be for Jherek Carnelian to somehow refind his humanity.
The first step is his falling in love with a woman translated through time from the 19th century. It is a very amusing story, and yet to me somehow profound at some level.
These novels takes SRD's general theme of "What makes us human" and reverses it. In a mind-boggling distant future where everyone is pretty much all-powerful - and yet somehow out of touch with being human, the quest seems to be for Jherek Carnelian to somehow refind his humanity.
The first step is his falling in love with a woman translated through time from the 19th century. It is a very amusing story, and yet to me somehow profound at some level.
"When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back into you" - Nietzsche
Well it was good in a sense.... once the romance with Geraden finally arrived, it meant much less creepiness from Eremis...
but more important than that it meant that Terisa understood it was creepy the way Eremis treated her in all future encounters.
It's an enjoyable romance, and subtle, but on my first read, what I most liked was that it allowed Terisa to see Eremis in the correct light, which she had not been doing up until the point she chose Geraden. Because it was irking me immensely that Terisa didn't think Eremis was creepy.
but more important than that it meant that Terisa understood it was creepy the way Eremis treated her in all future encounters.
It's an enjoyable romance, and subtle, but on my first read, what I most liked was that it allowed Terisa to see Eremis in the correct light, which she had not been doing up until the point she chose Geraden. Because it was irking me immensely that Terisa didn't think Eremis was creepy.
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shadowbinding shoe
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Terisa's beauty was necessary in some senses. Ugliness would have made her noticeable. It would have given her defining characteristics. Take Eremis for example. In a way he's the complete opposite of Terisa. He's one ugly dude, but his numerous disgusting features mark him out for all to see, they draw our attention to him and let his overweening charisma shine through to us. Terisa on the other hand is a blank slate. A white piece of paper is beautiful in its way but in the end its still empty. There was no mar to bring her face into focus.
Another thing that we might not notice because of the character-driven perspective is that Terisa may not have been that beautiful in our world. Here where everyone has good health-care and nutrition and the cosmetics paraphernalia she was good looking but not outstandingly so. In Mordant's world on the other hand... She had no moles, warts disfiguring scars and so forth. She was the most beautiful thing they'd ever seen.
Another thing that we might not notice because of the character-driven perspective is that Terisa may not have been that beautiful in our world. Here where everyone has good health-care and nutrition and the cosmetics paraphernalia she was good looking but not outstandingly so. In Mordant's world on the other hand... She had no moles, warts disfiguring scars and so forth. She was the most beautiful thing they'd ever seen.
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Cord Hurn
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"Or?" she insisted.
"Or you can stay here." For a moment longer, he held his face away, refused to look at her. But then, like a man who couldn't stop himself, he turned toward her. "You can stay here and marry me."
Through her tears, his eyes looked abashed and brave, accessible to joy or pain; troubled, sweet, and precious. And when he gazed at her like that, she heard the unmistakable sound of horns.
Yes, it was a good love story.Thus the arch-Imager Terisa of Morgan and Adept Geraden of Domne were married like the princess and the hero in a fable: grandly (some said gloriously) surrounded by family and friends and honor and respect, in a world which they had helped bring to safety. She had lost her father's wealth in order to gain her own power, and the enchantment which held her was gone.
And he had inherited something better than Cares and kingdoms, which was himself; his courage and his willing heart had come into their true birthright.
In the ceremony of marriage, they made a number of vows, all of which added up to the same thing: they promised to help each other hear horns.
And so much more, too: with its deft blending of fantasy, mystery, horror, and romance (and even a little bit of science fiction, courtesy of Darsint's presence), Mordant's Need is a work I will always revere and appreciate. 
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Iolanthe
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Cord knows from our conversations at Efest that the Mordant books are my particular favourites.
More than a love story, both Terisa and Geraden have handicaps. Terisa's treatment by her parents, and having never known love, has caused her to develop the "fading" that she uses, and suffers. Geraden's treatment by Eremis and Gilbur, who realise that he has capabilities that they cannot understand and which will be dangerous to them, and subsequently by most of the other members of the Congury, makes him clumsy and unsure of himself.
Together they find their own meaning and along the way also find love.
In fact, I am now motivated to read the books again, for the umpteenth time!
More than a love story, both Terisa and Geraden have handicaps. Terisa's treatment by her parents, and having never known love, has caused her to develop the "fading" that she uses, and suffers. Geraden's treatment by Eremis and Gilbur, who realise that he has capabilities that they cannot understand and which will be dangerous to them, and subsequently by most of the other members of the Congury, makes him clumsy and unsure of himself.
Together they find their own meaning and along the way also find love.
In fact, I am now motivated to read the books again, for the umpteenth time!
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
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Cord Hurn
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Well put, Iolanthe! I just finished a re-read of Mordant's Need, and found it every bit as fun as I remembered!Iolanthe wrote:More than a love story, both Terisa and Geraden have handicaps. Terisa's treatment by her parents, and having never known love, has caused her to develop the "fading" that she uses, and suffers. Geraden's treatment by Eremis and Gilbur, who realise that he has capabilities that they cannot understand and which will be dangerous to them, and subsequently by most of the other members of the Congury, makes him clumsy and unsure of himself.
Together they find their own meaning and along the way also find love.
In fact, I am now motivated to read the books again, for the umpteenth time!
Tsk, tsk. A wish like this just puts such a sinister cast on that title, "Administrator".Avatar wrote:I usually just want to give Terisa a slap. --A
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Not so much that as her whining lack of any kind of self-esteem whatsoever.
That and her "fading away" trick. (Not that I haven't had existential crises of my own, but they're usually the other way round. I know I'm real...its the rest of the world I'm not sure about. )
She does improve of course, but for 3/4 of the story I just want to fetch her a slap and tell her to "woman up."
--A
That and her "fading away" trick. (Not that I haven't had existential crises of my own, but they're usually the other way round.
I know I'm real...its the rest of the world I'm not sure about. )She does improve of course, but for 3/4 of the story I just want to fetch her a slap and tell her to "woman up."
--A