Kevin's Watch

I think you may have just ruined the whole story for me

That of course is the other half of the debate. Is the Land real or not?

is our world real?

Does it matter if this world is real or not, as long as we`re having a good time here?

Right!! Caught up, and then some.. as im sure has been observed he biggest challenge will be not getting so far ahead that u forget whats happened in the chapters in discussion lol Anyway.. first impressions on these chapters at current reread.. as ever, its a totally new experience rereading TC a few years down the line.. and what seems salient each time is not neccessarily the same. Whats interesting reading again when ur already quite familiar with the series is that you have more leisure to analyse details and developments within the context of the bigger picture, the wider themes. So.. these are my thoughts atm


As someone already said, up till this point he's used the wild magic twice, both times it appears to have been the result of some strong emotion, rage etc. This dovetails nicely with what for me thus far was the most moving event.. and it's implications. Baradakas' reaction to TC. As we all know, he IS the white gold.. to save or to damn. To most he's closed, they can't decide if he's for good or ill for that very reason. He IS the paradox.. the white gold. Remember the quote, worst thing.. to be given back something broken etc etc.. TC's contempt and disgust for his illness and himself by proxy are the preconditions which make him of all people most susceptible to beauty and the value of it. This is what Baradakas saw, the depth of his loathing for Illness/Unhealth.. and the flipside of that which is an utterly profound appreciation for its opposites. To save or damn - questions wether his love for that will be enough for him to set aside his self loathing, to discard the tenets of his survival.. in it's service. This as we know, is his struggle throughout the series.. real or not.. survive or embrace. This is the cusp he hovers on which makes him the white gold. It all seems to fit together on yet another level at this reading.. god i can never tire of this series lol

thoughts please!

Kas

A question 4 people who have read the series regarding the Wraiths:

Spoiler

Ever think there may just b some etheral/"deep place", otherside of the world connection btween the Wraiths and the Elohim, especially as far as "pure Earthpower" or "Earthpower incarnate" is concerned?

I will pose a topic about this in the TC discussions soon!

Something I meant to ask about earlier. The murdered Waynhim was killed with a metal bar/rod.

The raver that passed by Soaring Woodhelvn resembled a Stonedownor who would have used a stone knife or something. What's with the metal?

Although I've recently gone through my second reading - this is my third - I am seeing a whole lot more this time around.

Metal seems to be very rare in the Land. The only ones who seem to have it in large quantities are the baddies

Spoiler

like the big iron shield they used when they trashed Soaring Woodhelvin

, so to me that indicates that the murderer was indeed the Raver. He would have brought the iron rod with him from Mount Doom. Maybe he left Mount Doom as a Cave Wight or ur Vile or something until he found a suitable victim amongst the humans. He couldn't have been a bunny rabbit or some animal without hands and still keep the murder weapon with him. I think that there was some sort of evil magic or bad chemical or something in that rod, too. The rod and its ill was a message to the Waynhim, as much as the murder itself was. But here's another question:

Spoiler

Why would Foul care about whether or not the Waynhim keep their bargain with the Lords? Or is Foul just showing Covenant that all of the people who help him are going to be destroyed, just like Soaring Wodhelvin will be later?

I don't think Lord Foul is at work yet. All that is happening is a direct result of what Drool Rockworm is doing. LF is just sitting back and not controlling anything.

But would the Raver obey Drool? I somehow thought that they only obeyed Foul.

Drool has the staff of law so I figure he'd be able to get the ravers to some of his deeds. I think LF also said in the beginning that he is still powerless - even against Drool.

Maybe Drool was stupider then we thought. Chances are he was being manipulated by both LF and the Raver at the same time.

Oh cool--well, that supports my theory about a folly-prone and 'gloat-less' Raver attempting 2 master TC on the bridge!! Vain u really do care! (Now if TC said that line we'd all b rolling on the floor 4 hours! )

Thinking ahead about the Seven Words of Power...

In the chapters we've read so far we r introduced 2 some of the language of the Old Lords. In The Celebration of Spring the Unfettered One utters the most old words in 1 sentence we've ever heard.

Melenkurion abatha! Binas mill Banas Nimoram khabaal! Melenkurion abatha! Abatha Nimoram!

Atiaran tells TC that Banas Nimoram means: The Celebration of Spring. So those words can't be part of the Seven Words, can they? Is khabaal akin 2 cabal--which means gathering or coven doesn't it?

We already know some other old words like rhadamaerl, suru-pa-maerl, lillianrill, lormillialor and aliantha. Maerl would have 2 mean stone and llia might refer directly 2 wood. I don't think we know what Melenkurion abatha means but the glossary calls it an: invocation of power. So those 2 may b words of power...


I'll have 2 look in the Old Discussion forum 4 the 7 Words of Power topic. In that ancient thread they came 2 the conclusion that in the 6 books only 6 Words were found..hmmmm I'll have 2 find a way 2 reserect that topic!!!

Danlo, I've always wondered if the khabaal word has something to do with the Ranyhin -- doesn't the father of horses have a similar name? And Melenkurien might have something to do with the power at the Skyweir?

It's Kelenbhrabanaal or something along these lines.

I think that we should have a contest. It would be jokes that start with the line "Drool Rockworm is so stupid that ---" and go from there!

I sought out this discussion because I was thinking about these chapters recently. When I read them the first time they left me with a combination of excitement and sadness. We've spent the first few chapters of the book struggling to comprehend the world that TC has found himself. We too are confused. We learn from the Stonedowners that TC resembles an ancient hero. We learn that he apparently possesses a power that he and we don't understand. In spite of what happened to Lena, we are all reading this book to share the adventures of a hero. TC does not embody a hero to this point in the story so when he seemingly defeats the storm with a flash from his ring we are finally treated to the first glimpse of what TC must eventually become. TC is aggravated and annoyed with his treatment at Soaring Woodhelven. We feel bad for TC but I’m sure we all wished he wasn’t so darn gruff. When he dramatically passes the test of truth we see yet another example of the burgeoning hero. The scene in Andelain is amazing and heart wrenching. The Wraiths are beautiful and mysterious. A wonder to behold. They seemingly have accepted TC and embrace him in a way that is obviously unique. There is a wonderful kinship established there until the Ur-viles arrive. Now if for only a moment we believe in TC. He has no idea what to do but he goes charging into the fray anyway. He is capable but clueless to combat and to his own power, so he fails. Absolutely tragic. A very moving chapter.

Well, I might be far too late for this thread, but I have some questions regarding the Wraits and other stuff...

Does anyone remember any mentioning of exactly what they are and what their purpose is? Are they indeed earthpower incarnate or something left from times of old (like under the Old Lords or even under the time of the King and Queen? or perhaps even earlier, from the time of Colossus...)? Do they exist between the Celebrations or are they somehow summoned only for this? They are so mysterious that I hope that some of their nature can be revealed soner or later.

And their relation to TC or the white gold: a positive or negative thing? Tom wrote: The wraits

seemingly have accepted TC and embrace him

. I am not so sure - cant it again be the white gold/fear that draws them, not respect?

I was also thinking about Jehannum. We never meet him in person in this chapter (which is named after him - I really like that! A whole chapter, and we dont meet him, but we still see his significance!), we only hear the tales of his visit to the Woodhelven. From what I gather, he seem to have accted rather suspiciously on the border to clumsy. And I cannot really understand why the inhabitants of the Woodhelvenin managed to draw the conclusion that is must have been a Raver that they encountered - have not these almost turned into mythological beasts by now?

In general I get the impression that Ravers are so "impulsively evil" that they always have a hard time to acctually disquise themselves... The only Raver I can remember right now that acctually managed to infiltrate very well is

Spoiler

Gibbon (and he might have managed that due to a unbroken line of infiltrations - everybody expected the leader of the Clave to be mad? )

And then there is the strange reactions caused by TCs shoes. Is it only the Staff of Law that is capable of tracing un-Landly stuff or is this technique also used to some extent by Lord Foul (to keep track of TC, Hile or Linden - surely he must have some means to spy upon them, apart from the Ravers of course)? And how does it work? Is it the earth that feels that something is wrong? Probably this is just a small and insignificant happening, only related to Drool and the Staff, but I am just curious if anyone else have thought about the background - consequences?

I'm listening to Scott Brick's audio version of LFB again, and I was struck by the following question:

Why were there no other spectators in Andelain to watch the Celebration of Spring?

I wonder if it was something that was generally known about. Atiaran may have been one of the relatively few people who did, as she had been educated in Revelstone.

However, I think the biggest reason is that the people of the Land aren't "touristy". They're stay-at-home types, and they aren't ones to go see something for the sake of seeing it. Atiaran and Lena seem to be a bit special in that they want to see more of the world. And even then, Atiaran only stopped to see the Celebration because they had been passing near to it.

I certainly think that, had there been thousands of people showing up to see the Celebration, it would have been very out-of-character, at least to me.