Kevin's Watch

It is said in LFB I'm sure that Berek knew of white gold, but that there had never been white gold in the Land before TC.

Sum sui generis
Vs

As the wild magic song goes,

"gold, rare metal, not born of the Land"

So there wasn't any white gold in the Land before TC's arrival ( there was common gold though, as Kasreyn of the Gyre in the Second Chronicles shows ); therefore it is unlikely Berek actually used white gold. And of course no references state he did: all he is credited with doing was done through the Earthpower.

Berek probably knew of white gold, but that doesn't mean the Creator told him; he might have learned of wild magic when the Earthpower spoke to him, since

"there is wild magic graven in every rock
contained for white gold to unleash or control."

Then again, if the speculations running about that Berek and TC are one and the same are found to be true, then of course Berek, being TC, knew and had used white gold

The Land and its Earth are not the same thing. Something "not born of the Land" may have, nevertheless, existed elsewhere. Of course, we don't have reason to believe it did, and I assume the Elohim would have found it if it did. Kevin probably would have found it too.

In the same vein ( ?), the Kemper's regular gold does not mean there was any in the Land.

But what, exactly, is white gold anyway? An alloy of gold and what? Platinum? Whatever it is, I guess no white gold actually means none of the other metal, because the Kemper surely would have used it to make white gold if there was any.

Okay, I stand corrected. My oopsy. Berek called forth the Fire-lions from Mount Thunder. But I could've sworn it was stated somewhere that he knew about the white gold. It does stand to reason though, and I correct my former post, that if Berek had the white gold then it would've still been somewhere in the Land for later usage. Unless of course he summoned it from elsewhere then sent it back. But that's stretching things a bit. Thanks for correcting me.

"gold, rare metal, not born of the Land"

that always made me wonder...is the Kemper from the real world? You'd think that if there was gold to be found, the Kemper would have had quite a bit in his possession, seeing as he knew how to unlock its power and all. However, all he had was his ocular...

No, he had much more. Remember his chair? It had lots of gold hoops on it. And he said:

"Such gold is rare in the Earth. Mayhap it may be found no otherwhere than here. Therefore I came hither, taking the mastery of Bhrathairealm upon myself. And therefore also do I strive to extend my sway over other realms, other regions, seeking more gold..."

So he knew it was there, went there, and still hasn't found more anywhere else.

The fact that the song says "not born of the Land" and not "not born of the Earth" doesn't necessarily mean that white gold could be found elsewhere in that world After all, not only songs usually use metaphors and similitudes ( "and white, because white is the hue of bone" ), but also because the books are seen from a Land-centered point of view, and we don't know how often people of the Land would travel away from it - so it's simply possible that they said "Land" and not "Earth" because all they knew was the Land. But I agree that it might also refer to the fact that gold was only found in Bhrathair ( and thus not in the Land ), and that the metal it is alloyed with to make white gold didn't exist in that world at all ( or certainly Foul would have had no moral problems in digging it out, melting it and crafting white gold himself ).

Didn't regular gold have power of its own? I don't quite remember. That would stand to reason that the second metal of the alloy would also have power in the land, and the two mixed together would combine those powers. So what would the power of the second metal be? But I digress, and I'm about to digress again. The interesting thing about mentioning that we don't know how often people left the land is that it leaves a whole slue of questions open about the Unfettered. I mean, surely if the Unfettered went to study with Cavewights and Ur-viles (as mentioned in LFB), then they might also have found ways out of the Land. Possibly some went to the places where the Stonedowners and Woodhelvennin were exiled to after the Desecration. Some might have even found their ways as far as the Elohim or to the Giants' Home. Of course, this is never mentioned, but it's still an interesting thought. Almost certainly if white gold were available to the Land, though, or anywhere on or in the Earth for that matter, some Unfettered somewhere over history would have found his or her way to it, studied it, mastered it, and Foul wouldn't have stood a chance. Thus Covenant wouldn't have been needed, and white gold wouldn't have been summoned to the Land in the first place. Whoa, we're getting into paradox here. See what white gold does to you?

rillinlure wrote:. But I could've sworn it was stated somewhere that he knew about the white gold.

It does, but I always took that to mean that he knew of it, but had never seen it. I always assumed that the legends of white gold came from him, and that he learned of it from the Earthpower.

Sum sui generis
Vs

dlbpharmd wrote:Perhaps Kevin didn't summon white gold to the Land for the same reason that he didn't use the Power of Command - he couldn't accurately predict the outcome. He couldn't know that he himself would not break the AoT. Remember, he was a prophet, but not a seer.

But as to Berek - when did he use white gold? I'm not aware of any such reference.

imho, Kevin didn't use the Power of Command because he knew it wouldn't suffice against Foul, not because he couldn't predict the outcome. It DOES say Kevin 'longed for it' (it being white gold) somewhere in LFB.

So if Kevin can get nutty enough to blow up the whole Land and gamble he takes Foul down with it, I think he would have summoned white gold to the Land if he knew how and taken that gamble first, even if he couldn't predict the outcome. Better the blowing up everything! He knew white gold existed and that it would work, but he didn't seem to know how to get at it.

markjeffrey wrote:imho, Kevin didn't use the Power of Command because he knew it wouldn't suffice against Foul, not because he couldn't predict the outcome.

Well, Amok suspects the problem of unforseeable consequences Kevin's bigger concern, but he didn't know for sure. I imagine it was the combination. If he knew it would work, he may have risked the consequences.

markjeffrey wrote:It DOES say Kevin 'longed for it' (it being white gold) somewhere in LFB.

Actually, Amok said that:

"In his last days, High Lord Kevin yearned for it in vain."

dANdeLION wrote:Consider this: while Kevin was High Lord in the Land, Covenant was not yet vulnerable to being summoned to the land. At the time TC may have been anywhere from 2 to 5 year younger, not yet a leper, not yet divorced, not yet bitter; not yet a paradox. Also, Foul and the Creator both agreed on Covenant, which implies that no matter what the depth of Kevin's knowledge was, he couldn't summon anybody because it would not have been permitted by higher powers.

thats the best explanation ive seen

ah, thats right...maybe he brought an unusual amount with him?