A Question to my Fellow Female Fans!

[just me]

Well, Lord Mhoram IS a hottie!

[caamora]

Vain - I mentioned TC before his leporsy.

To answer Guest, as far as Lord Mhorham, in my opinion, its more about his character, integrity and personality. Mhorham is THE "nice guy" of the story. For me, that is what does it. Along with the fact that he is not a Giant (who would be frighteningly large ), the Bloodguard (who would be too difficult to live up to), Lord Foul (I'm not really into S&M), or TC (who has too many issues), Mhorham is the one to go to.

[duchess of malfi]

There's also his sexy nose and really cute smile.
I would have to agree about him being a genuinely nice human being. A lot of women (me included) have a tendency to go for the "total package", of which personality is one of the most important parts. That's probably why a couple of women are saying "Lord Hyrim", too. He's a nice, sensitive, funny man who's probably also somewhat cute. What's he descibed as? A demented angel or something like that? I have one issue with the Bloodguard/Huruchai and that's the fact that they're used to women they can (ahem) merge their minds with. A mere human woman wouldn't be able to compete with that. And yeah, I love the Giants, but they'd be too much for a mere human woman to handle.

[birdandbear]

Well now, I was just wondering yesterday why no woman of the Land ever snatched up that sexy ol' Mhoram. Blade of a nose, crooked smile, all that Lords fire, Mhoram is definately a hottie.

But for me TC himself is THE man. He's an extremely emotional guy, just a little inarticulate sometimes. I mean come on ladies- what woman isn't a sucker for a man with that much passion. And so what about the Leprosy? It's even curable now.

And then there're the Haruchai - very sexy. Although I never pictured them as big and burly. If I had I would have to agree, not my thing.

And by the way what exactly is Vain wearing under that loincloth thing? [/i]

[Lord Mhoram]

I dont want to know.

[danlo]

Geeze this is getting a little 2 risque! Guys we'll have 2 spice up our hot females topic! Somewhere in Revelstone poor Warhaft Quann is Jealous--Have u ladies no feelings 4 this guy? (or even ol' ?) or is it because he's not haft the man Mhoram is? hahahahaha!

[aliantha]

Oh, come on, you guys. Foamfollower's the real hottie (well, besides Jay). Kind, brave, loyal to a fault, great sense of humor -- and he's TALL. 'Nuff said.

No, seriously, Mhoram's the man. And maybe Covenant, yeah, if you're up for rescuing a guy whose self-esteem is in the toilet. After all, your crazed prophet-types always have a little charisma thing going on....

Hey, this is fun!

[Guest]

Naw, Jay's the hottie has great taste in books, runs a great website, has a good sense of humor, obviously very bright But I don't know if his nose is as sexy as Mhoram's.

[Ahanna]

Well now, I was just wondering yesterday why no women of the Land ever snatched up that sexy ol' Mhoram..."

I believe the answer is that Mhoram was never interested in women – his preferences being otherwise. Or am I the only one who perceives a sexual tension between Mhoram and Covenant? I could be wrong, but I have always felt that their feelings (however suppressed) went beyond mere friendship.

The subject of homosexuality is never discussed in TCTC, although the Unfettered interpreter of dreams is described as androgynous "with a fluting voice like a woman's". Covenant also believes that Mhoram is close to this man "You've probably gone up there yourself more than anyone else".

Mhoram never married, and seems to live in absolute celibacy like a monk. Still, he is described as a man of extreme passion, and he is also clearly undergoing some internal struggle and feelings of unworth. In a way, he is as obsessed with Covenant as Elena was. He holds his hand the night through after he was summoned to the Land the 2:nd time. He never stops thinking about him and keeps his portrait in his private chambers. He spends all his nights looking at the marrowmeld sculpture and occasionally "strokes it gently". There is no doubt that Mhoram loves Covenant, the question is whether he is also in love with him.

Isn't it possible that Mhoram was attracted to this intense, passionate man when he first lay eyes on him, and that his feelings confused him and filled him with self-doubt. Perhaps he never admitted this to be true even to himself. Certainly, Covenant is also drawn to Mhoram. Remember that he chose Mhoram's private quarters for his intimate night with Linden, and that she vehemently tells Mhoram's specter "Everytime I turn around, he tells me he wishes you were with him. He values you more than anyone".

When Covenant wakes up after his first night in the Keep after Elena's summoning he finds Mhoram by his side and "Mhoram's gaze made Covenant acutely conscious of their clasped hands" and later on Mhoram says: "-Hunger is hunger, and need is need. How else-? No! Covenant dismissed the idea heavily. At that the gold flecks in Mhoram's eyes flared, as if they reflected the passion of the sun". The chapter in which Covenant pays Mhoram a late night visit after his encounter with the Unfettered One is probably as close as we ever come to an attempt to probe their relationship "He seemed to stumble, though he was standing still. He lurched forward, and caught himself on Mhoram's shoulder. For a moment, he clung there, pressing his forehead into Mhoram's robe".

To me, there is also a very strong sexual symbolism in the krill, and the way in which Mhoram brings to life his own potency through this channel of White Gold. A phallic symbol in itself, the krill is described in the terms of the implicit gift of Elena's incestuous desires, which TC rejects, remembering the crime his potency drove him to commit in the past. Is it a coincidence that Mhoram is the only one who finds it within himself to set this phallic power/potency free again?

Covenant's destruction of the Staff of Law and Mhoram's Victory are also described in sexual metaphors. The Staff of Law can also be seen as a phallic symbol, and also as an extension of Mhoram – the rightful wielder of this object. White Magic erupts like a volcano, and the wind flutters and gusts and tumbles to the ground in silent cries. Mhoram feels a fire burning under his robe, and he drives the krill deeper and deeper into the Raver's bosom. The stone is laboring convulsively, pounding and quivering to carry itself through a crisis. It hammers against Mhoram like a mounting cataclysm, and eventually explodes in an eruption tumbling them inextricably together. In this fashion, Mhoram becomes one with Covenant/White Gold in his one act of true potency. When the krill's light is gone, so is Mhoram's passion, and he lets it fall into the depths of Glimmermere, knowing he will never feel this way again now that Covenant's lost to him forever.

Perhaps this reasoning is too Freudian, but keep in mind that we're in the Land of Covenant's subconscious self.

BTW: If I had my choice of men in the Land, I would pick Hamako for his unusual blend of honesty, courage and gentleness, his compassion and warmth.

[danlo]

Wow Ahanna u certainly kno ur Chrons! Well u've come 2 the right place. (NO pun intended) Welcome!! 2 me, @least, the concept of love means more to me than mere sexuality in the books. Even tho SRD surely does set the stage 4 ur, and other's, xploration in2 these matters with Lena and Elena. An interesting disertation, but I'm afraid I just can't get beneath the robes in this matter. Now on the other hand Chant was definately gay--or a very dangerous bi-sexual--All the Elohim are gay! Look out inside that Staff Vain! Findial wants u. Disclaimer: everything I just said about the Elohim is a joke!!!

[Guest]

actually, I've always wondered about High Lord Prothall and Hirebrand Birinair

[aliantha]

Jeez. And here all this time I thought Mhoram was married to his job. It's true, then -- all the really sensitive guys are gay....

Seriously, Ahanna, this never occurred to me about Mhoram. It does seem odd that he never married, but -- carrying a torch for Covenant? Hmm. I will have to pay better attention to the relationship between these two, as the dissection of the Chrons progresses.

[ducchess of malfi]

I don't see much point in starting a "who's gay?" discussion. Donaldson just doesn't give us any direct evidence about this subject for any character, other than possibly the ones who are married and have kids (and since one of my best friends is a gay man who is married and has a kid, not even that might be enough evidence of someone's sexual preferences). Seeing as how he never shies away from such controversial subjects as divorce, rape, and incest, if he intended one of more of his characters to be gay I think he'd come right out and openly bring it up. This is a nonissue to me... I think that we should get right into the more important issues such as "what do the bloodguard wear under their robes?" and sometimes IMHO, a flagpole is just a flagpole

[kevinswatch]

Naw, Jay's the hottie has great taste in books, runs a great website, has a good sense of humor, obviously very bright But I don't know if his nose is as sexy as Mhoram's.

Heh, I'm starting to like this topic.-jay

[Hile Troy]

WOW! Excellent post Ahanna! But I never read that much into those portions you posted. I always felt Mhoram was one of the most noble and benevolent people in the Land. He really had no sexuality but was married to his proper office. As far as his admiration of the marrowmeld sculpture... I always interpreted it that his mind was full of deep thoughts (pardon the pun, lol!) perhaps concerning the Land, memories of Elena, and this prophesied halfhanded savior whom he befriended. Just my humble opinion!



Oh yeah! What about them ur-viles and waynhim, Gals? (hehe)

[Ahanna]

Thanks danlo! Glad to be here on this excellent discussion board!

the concept of love means more than sex.

Indeed so. First, I'd like to state that Mhoram's my favorite character in TCTC, that's why it's so interesting to try and understand him. His love is unselfish and platonic. Even though he loves the land more than anything, does he not return the Unbeliever against the need of the Land?

I see Mhoram's Victory as his personal victory. With this act of power, he liberates himself of mere human want or desire. He literally burns it out of his flesh, thereby making himself pure – much like TC or Foamfollower. He comes out of this ordeal like a holy man – not to be touched. I think that if he had been surrounded by Merewives, it would not have affected him. He would hear the song but not listen to it.

Ah, the Elohim! I don't think they're gay, but I've always envisioned them as the entire cast of "Days of our Lives" or some other icky daytime soap. Good-looking in a Barbie-and-Ken sort of way. Utterly superficial, false and devious. As a matter of fact, when I last read The One Tree, I was almost sure I saw Heather Locklear and ..ug..Tori Spelling in Elemesnedene.

[Foamfollower1013]

It's the mix of passion and gentleness, mystery and humanity. And he's a genuinely nice man!

Well said, duchess. ITA.

Mhoram is definitely the man. I wish I were a better artist...I'd love to draw his face. The perilous eyes with the flecks of gold in them - the crooked, humane mouth - and the straight nose like a rudder, steering its way between the two. I've tried and tried, but I just can't get it right.

~Foamy~

[caamora]

WOW! Ahanna! I feel so stupid! I never saw things that way. And now that you have mentioned it, I think you may have hit the nail on the head!

For those of you who would consider yourself conservative and quick to embarassment of sexual banter, please do not read the following. It is quite twisted!

Spoiler

Ok, girls, I would be interested in seeing TC and Mhorham go at it!!HA-HA-HA

[duchess of malfi]

I'm still not too sure about this whole thing. We never get to see Mhoram thinking in a sexual way in his point of view chapters, but TC seems pretty darn straight in his...

[kaseryn]

I dont read any of that as sexual.. Mhoram is deep, caring and perceptive. A very integrated man with a big heart and a lot of passion. I always felt his closeness with TC was natural bacause a: TC will save or damn, Mhoram wants to know which.. and as far as possible help TC to save b: he see's more of TC than the others.. more than most of the other characters in the book he percieved something of the conflicts which were so much a part of tc's personality and felt great empathy/sympathy. He also seemed to learn a lot from that understanding. Mhoram seemed transfixed by the paradox that was TC for reasons which become clear at the end of the series.. and that understanding helped him to unlock his own power in Mhorams Victory. Sorry i strayed so far but whenever u get started on a TC topic u keep thinking of other related stuff lol