Kevin's Watch

Interesting question..

TC wouldn't have elected to die by Foul's hand. Leaving him envenomed.
If TC fought Foul and defeated him, would the chamber hold?
Would TC have enough time to heal the Land after expending a fight with Foul?
If he tried, what would be the results? He was with venom, his Hansen's disease would have been active. He isn't a doctor, he was without feeling.

What would the Land been transformed to by what TC thinks the land should be. With all the above issues active.

After Foul was diminished would TC go back to his body and die in his world?
Would there have been a Third Chronicles?

I am just coming to the end of the second chronicles.The introduction of Linden totally ruined the second chronicles for me,an unmitigaged disaster on the part of Donaldson,the only explanation I can see is he must have been doing Peyote or Crack cocaine!

I think TC would have been better off if he was a little more forward thinking like ordering "Vain protect me from all harm. ALL THE BLOODY TIME!" Once Saltheart turned the Ur-vile spawn over to him.

Oh, the carnage would have been non stop.

everything would change from the point he was being held prisoner by Mithil Stonedown to sacrifice for the sunbane... He would have had no one to ask him about the land and would not have told the story overheard by sunder to make him more willing to help TC escape... and if he was able to somehow bring up the old stories the path would have been somewhat different, he might not have gone out alone to find Marid, he may have been less likely to roam the wastelands of the desert sun without a companion, no marid bite, TC wouldnt be delerious from the venom , no wild magic to remove the threat of the Clave rider Sivit. ... sealing Hollians fate to being captured.(they might have actually arrived before Sivit, both been captured for blood the next morning and Sivit would have arrived and taken TC or tried to kill him right then and there. probably succeeding unless TC's white gold erputed the moment Sivits Rukh fire got near him, Or if sivit succeeded putting TC in a mind manacle..takes tc to Revelstone ....no Vain, no dead of Andelain, and worse...no exploration of the Keep and No Haruchai saved............. No Brinn...Cail, Ceer, Hergrom, etc... No New Akharu..

If Linden Avery had not been Present in the land Thomas Covenant would have had to regain landsight becoming the Sunsage, or SRD could have easily slipped Hollian into that role. Mistweave would have died (if they even met the Giants.)

it would be a completely different series..as you can see I didnt even get past Crystal stonedown without consequential changes..

No Linden?
Ah... be still my heart!

I can see it.
Remember that it was Linden who distracted TC as he was giving himself to Foul at the Summoning to go to the Land.
If it wasn't for Linden Foul might never have stabbed TC in the chest.
Perhaps the blood from the brainwashed cult would have been enough to transport him to the Land.
Then it would require a rewrite more thorough than everyone has suggested so far but the first thing would be right when TC arrived in the Land.
Nassic wouldn't have been the *first* to meet TC at Kevin's Watch it would have been Findail.
The Elohim couldn't/wouldn't have healed Covenant of the venom after the fact but they could have healed him granted him health-sense from the very beginning.
No Linden would have required that they take a more active part in the story at an earlier time.
No Venom but an Earthpowered enhanced earthsensed wild magic wielding TC might be enough (the very Law that impeded this before was gone at this point).
The Banefire would have still been avoided at the end of the WL because it was so overwhelming but by the time WGW came by TC would have been in control enough to snuff it out with Wild Magic.
The final confrontation with Foul could still follow the "acceptance" path.
Maybe even TC giving the Ring to Foul but Foul then couldn't kill TC with it no matter how he tried and exhausted himself.
TC would then make a new Staff of Law like Linden did and once he healed the Sunbane/Earthpower the return of the Law and Fouls demise would have returned him to the real world.
Like I said, lots or rework but it could be done.
Linden sucks.



THOOLAH!!!!

High Lord Tolkien wrote:No Linden?
Ah... be still my heart!

I can see it.
Remember that it was Linden who distracted TC as he was giving himself to Foul at the Summoning to go to the Land.
If it wasn't for Linden Foul might never have stabbed TC in the chest.
Perhaps the blood from the brainwashed cult would have been enough to transport him to the Land.
Then it would require a rewrite more thorough than everyone has suggested so far but the first thing would be right when TC arrived in the Land.
Nassic wouldn't have been the *first* to meet TC at Kevin's Watch it would have been Findail.
The Elohim couldn't/wouldn't have healed Covenant of the venom after the fact but they could have healed him granted him health-sense from the very beginning.
No Linden would have required that they take a more active part in the story at an earlier time.
No Venom but an Earthpowered enhanced earthsensed wild magic wielding TC might be enough (the very Law that impeded this before was gone at this point).
The Banefire would have still been avoided at the end of the WL because it was so overwhelming but by the time WGW came by TC would have been in control enough to snuff it out with Wild Magic.
The final confrontation with Foul could still follow the "acceptance" path.
Maybe even TC giving the Ring to Foul but Foul then couldn't kill TC with it no matter how he tried and exhausted himself.
TC would then make a new Staff of Law like Linden did and once he healed the Sunbane/Earthpower the return of the Law and Fouls demise would have returned him to the real world.
Like I said, lots or rework but it could be done.
Linden sucks.



THOOLAH!!!!

...your right about Findail...they would have wanted him to be clear from the beginning..but Daphin and Chant did act surprised to see the sunsage and WGW as separate beings(as if they were ignorant to the fact,)...also TC and his healthsense being enough, I remember in LFB when they were approaching warrenbridge and TC was the only one who could see the Word of warning while everyone else was blind to it so he could have easily been a sunsage if his health sense had been restored, .. who knows how quick TC would have picked up the health sense and its uses now that he was a believer on this trip.

Well, TC would never have made it down the stairs of KW without Linden's help. Bad enough he has vertigo, he has to contend with a raging storm unlike any he'd seen in the Land. He would not have had to come down if he'd been alone; someone would have been there or come after him, or else why was he called? No, she was necessary. Foul thought she was necessary for his success because she would do things to help him attain victory and freedom, but the Creator knew better. All whining and selfishness aside, she was strong because of her past, and that came out when it was needed. I'm neither a Linden hater or lover, but she was necessary for the 2nd Chrons, and I'd bet money SRD had her in mind when he wrote the First Chrons, too. He said he had the Final Chrons in mind many years before he ever started them. I think I saw that in the GI, which I am many months behind in reading.

Rocksister wrote:Well, TC would never have made it down the stairs of KW without Linden's help. ... ... He would not have had to come down if he'd been alone; someone would have been there or come after him, or else why was he called?

Actually, there's always been someone there... Lena, Triock & Foamfollower, Linden,

Spoiler

and Anele.

If she hadn't been there, another way SRD could've written it would be that Nassic saw the translation and came up. Or he could've written it that Nassic meditated up there every day, till lo and behold! the Unbeliever actually appeared.

Foul thought she was necessary for his success because she would do things to help him attain victory and freedom

Spoiler

She still might. I believe "in the end she will heal us all" but ya never know...

I'd bet money SRD had her in mind when he wrote the First Chrons, too. He said he had the Final Chrons in mind many years before he ever started them. I think I saw that in the GI, which I am many months behind in reading.

I don't think he had Linden in mind when he wrote the First Chrons... remember, he had no plans to continue until Lester Del Rey prodded him. He had the Final Chrons in mind way back when he wrote the 2nd, but not the First.

I was making the assumption that he would have arrived alone, like he did the first time, had Linden not gone with him. Actually, the answers to this question can be as varied as the vocabulary usage of SRD, so it's too subjective to be debating. It's still fun, though. Good theories here. I guess my memory of past GI's has left me coming up short here; I didn't remember that he had to be prodded to write the 2nd Chrons. Thanx for reminding me.

Kevin164 wrote:I think TC would have been better off if he was a little more forward thinking like ordering "Vain protect me from all harm. ALL THE BLOODY TIME!" Once Saltheart turned the Ur-vile spawn over to him.

Oh, the carnage would have been non stop.

This is a great idea but I bet something would have prevented it from working (along the same lines as perpetual motion machines and using your third wish to ask a Genie for three more wishes.)

The Clave would have ripped him apart eventually. Vain wasn't all powerful.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:The Clave would have ripped him apart eventually. Vain wasn't all powerful.

The Elohim weren't too thrilled with him either.