Kevin's Watch

Cate, what a fantastic post.

In all essence, you are right as far as I'm concerned. Not that I'm looking for a god, but that we all, regardless of our beliefs, are seekers after truth.

That only by questioning, constantly questioning, can we arrive at a truth which suits us. Regardless of what that truth is, regardless of how we reach it, regardless in fact, of whether we even discover it in the end or not, as long as we seek it in good "faith", and never, ever give up our search, we are on the right path.

There are days, as I have said, when I too want there to be some god. Some power who will mete out justice to those who need it, who will validate my belief in consideration, in kindness, beauty and hope. But I don't want the god portrayed by organised religions. The god who is arbitrary and petty. If that god is the one that exists, I'm not interested.

And if no god exists to provide such validation, that doesn't bother me. I act from my own convictions. Non-existence of god does not negate the way I lived my life, because I live that way from my own belief that I am right. Not an imposed system of values, but my own certainty that it has been the right way to live.

As has often been said, the Journey is far more valuable than the destination.

Keep seeking. Keep questioning.
It is perhaps the most worthwhile pursuit of all.

--Avatar

Av, in a good sense, in the truest sense, NEVER GIVE AN INCH! I know you'll "get it."

I'll keep trying, regardless.

Peace
--Avatar

There have been some wonderful posts in here, definately. I was reading it, and thinking about some of the ontological proofs of God that have been given... the philosophical, logical ones.

some of them are interesting, but none of them incredibly convincing. I'll post the one that Anselm did later...

As simplistic and trite as it sounds, hold your first born child in your arms for the first time. Gaze into their face for the first time and you will see God. That will be your proof.

caamora wrote:As simplistic and trite as it sounds, hold your first born child in your arms for the first time. Gaze into their face for the first time and you will see God. That will be your proof.

Amen, caam

For me it was hearing my daughter's heartbeat through the fetal heart monitor.

I don't know,and to be honest I'm not very worried about it.I think at the end the lights go out and thats it,afterlife is a fantasy...................................................................Well somebody asked.

caamora wrote:As simplistic and trite as it sounds, hold your first born child in your arms for the first time. Gaze into their face for the first time and you will see God. That will be your proof.

To see the face of god, you can as easily gaze into a mirror. Thou art god.

--Avatar

Avatar: try looking past the mirror.

i have asked for signs, and been given them. but to someone who doesn't believe, they would offer no proof. i can't convince anyone here of their validity.
but i would suggest staying open to the possibility, because any sign sent wouldn't make it through that unbelief.

I'm open to the possibility. All I would require is a host of heavenly beings coming down and carrying me into the presence of god.

And as long as god was willing to answer a few questions about him/her/itself, and I liked the answers, I'd be out there, proselytising with the best of them.

I recognise the possibility. Just not the probability. And it doesn't bother me to contemplate that I may be wrong. I'm flexible. All I want is some form of honest, undeniable proof.

I can believe. I just don't have much faith. And that's really what it's about isn't it? Proof removes the need for faith. To accept something at face value is alien to my psyche. It may be. It may not be.

--Avatar

Avatar: at least you ain't asking for much...

Easy to please, that's me.

--A

Well, Av, you have run into the age-old conundrum of belief - having faith. For centuries, man has grasped for proof of God because they could not trust faith. Faith is the next step.

Also, it depends on what you deem "proof" actually is. For me, my very existance is proof enough. My children are "proof", my brother was "proof", love and life in itself is "proof"

I see and feel and hear God in everything. The very walls of my house swell with His presence. My heart is so full of Him, I feel at times that it may just burst. He's always been there, and always will be.

But, I can't "prove" Him to you or anyone else. That isn't possible. All I can do is share my belief, my faith..and hope it helps those in need.

Peace

i'm told to believe in the universe 'just happening' with less proof than i have for the belief in God. and that's ok. just wish that folks on the other side could see that.

How accurate you are, Furls. God is always with me, always looking over my shoulder. Once I welcomed Him in my life, I have never been alone.

I'm an atheist, but respecting the beliefs of others at least as long as they respect mine.

The most important thing in both belief and unbelief is to accept the possibility that the other side may be right - this way we can avoid falling into fanaticism.

Nicely said, Invain.

caamora wrote:As simplistic and trite as it sounds, hold your first born child in your arms for the first time. Gaze into their face for the first time and you will see God. That will be your proof.

Alas, that didn't work for me. Big surprise, eh?

Avatar wrote:To see the face of god, you can as easily gaze into a mirror. Thou art god.

That which groks.

Furls Fire wrote:But, I can't "prove" Him to you or anyone else. That isn't possible. All I can do is share my belief, my faith..and hope it helps those in need.

It most certainly does help. It even helps folks like me. Maybe not in ways you intend, or understand (I can't really explain it myself), but you are a joy, and I absolutely love hearing you talk about your faith.

Eric, I adore you. You have become such a special friend to me. I wish you nothing but happiness. God bless you.

caamora wrote:How accurate you are, Furls. God is always with me, always looking over my shoulder. Once I welcomed Him in my life, I have never been alone.

Isn't it glorious?? That overwhelming feeling of love. He is the root of my strength, without Him in my heart, I doubt I could have handled all that this life has handed me.

The times when you see only one set of footprints in the sand...those are the times I carried you.