Kevin's Watch

Kymbierlee and Jem, that's why I asked what do you mean by divinity? You both say everything has divinity, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

Kymbeirlee, whether you recognize Christian ideology or not is besides the point. You made some observations about it, and I was wondering where those observations came from. My guess is media or from people, not the Bible. Someone once said don't judge a philosophy by those who practice it. So I asked where did you get your observations.

As for Exodus 20-33, can you be a little more specific? Exodus 20 is the 10 commandments, is that gender imbalanced?

You made some observations about it, and I was wondering where those observations came from. My guess is media or from people, not the Bible. Someone once said don't judge a philosophy by those who practice it. So I asked where did you get your observations.

I don't make a practice of listening to other people, or especially the media about religion. I was raised Christian, found it lacking and became Pagan when I discovered it is the path for me. I am not criticizing Christians or Christianity, except to say that I don't believe the same things you do. I do believe in a primal divine "force" (not to be confused with THE Force, LOL) which runs through all things, giving them all divinity and making them part of the divine whole.
I was making observations based on Pagan ideology, not Christian. You brought Christianity into it by saying :

Kymbierlee, what do you mean there is divinity in all things? They were all created by God, but they do not have spiritual matter.

That is your philosophy and your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I was explaining my opinion and my philosophy.

Also, where does Christian ideology, in other words the Bible, talk about having to worship on a particular day, in a particular place, through a particular person?

The observation of Christians worshipping in a particular place through a minister, on the Sabbath is covered thoroughly by Exodus:20-33. Exodus 20 is the Ten Commandments, yes, but the rest of it goes on with God's description of the tabernacle, and the minister, and again admonishes Moses and his people to observe the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Kymbierlee and Jem, that's why I asked what do you mean by divinity? You both say everything has divinity, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

Divinity is what links us all, as well as the world around us, to our Creator, whomever He or She might be. Divinity might spring from the Creator, but because it does is present in all things created. Everything on this earth- rocks, trees, people, grass are all part of the divine. Pagans also recognize that the Divine isn't always completely good. We believe that divinity has a negative side as well- evil to balance out the good. The "Satan" to the Christian God, so to speak.

Kymbierlee wrote: I was making observations based on Pagan ideology, not Christian. You brought Christianity into it by saying :

No, my first post was in response to your post about Christian ideology, why you didn't like it, and some observations. My only question was where did those observations come from. I did not bring Christianity into it.

Kymbierlee wrote: The observation of Christians worshipping in a particular place through a minister, on the Sabbath is covered thoroughly by Exodus:20-33. Exodus 20 is the Ten Commandments, yes, but the rest of it goes on with God's description of the tabernacle, and the minister, and again admonishes Moses and his people to observe the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Oh, I thought you were saying that passage was against the sacred feminine, my bad. That clears it up for me. Although remember that the Sabbath was meant for a day of rest, as Jesus said it was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. As for a particular place through a minister, you're refering to Jewish Law in the Old Testament, which I would think most Jews would say is NOT Christian ideology. In the New Testament, "churches" were just people's houses, where a group of believers would meet. There might be a pastor, or teacher, but no one worshipped "through a minister." They were/are there to teach and guide. Worship to God depends upon your motive/heart, therefore no minister can worship for you or do anything FOR you, and therefore, you can't really do anything through him.

Kymbierlee wrote: Divinity is what links us all, as well as the world around us, to our Creator, whomever He or She might be. Divinity might spring from the Creator, but because it does is present in all things created. Everything on this earth- rocks, trees, people, grass are all part of the divine. Pagans also recognize that the Divine isn't always completely good. We believe that divinity has a negative side as well- evil to balance out the good. The "Satan" to the Christian God, so to speak.

I don't really understand. Divinity links us, springs from the Creator, and is present in all things, but what is it?

Cybrweez wrote:I don't really understand. Divinity links us, springs from the Creator, and is present in all things, but what is it?

Midi-chlorians.

Midi-chlorians.

Thank you, Wayfriend. At least it's concise!

Variol-son, in regards to your original question, many religions throughout time have had women as creators. However, when they created the earth, they gave birth to it. With male creators, they mostly just create it out of nothing - kind of like spontaneous generation. Also many other religions have co-creators: either a brother and sister or mother and son. If I had some books in front of me I could name them, however I do not.

Just a little info to throw your way.

..Interesting and illuminating discussion..but its all one form of dogma or another...male..female..mine's better than yours...
..Consider,,the concept,,the " superior being",,in what ever manifestation you choose. Male or Female,,it is still a " superior being". Perhaps any gender assignment is a another demonstrated "arrogance" by and of the human. The arrogance being,,humans even dare to claim that they know or are secure enough in their knowing,,that they put their faith in their knowing. God is omniscent but humans know God to be this or that. How dare anyone,,any one..tell me what God is? That has to be The Arrogance of humankind................MEL

We're not talking about whether or not 'god' is male or female. We're talking about spiritually sacred characteristics and symbols that are traditionaly male or female. No one is defining god here...

Male or Female,,it is still a " superior being". Perhaps any gender assignment is a another demonstrated "arrogance" by and of the human. The arrogance being,,humans even dare to claim that they know or are secure enough in their knowing,,that they put their faith in their knowing. God is omniscent but humans know God to be this or that. How dare anyone,,any one..tell me what God is? That has to be The Arrogance of humankind................MEL

Many human beings need to be able to break things down into pieces that the human mind is comfortable with. By defining God as male, female or a combination of both, it makes him/her/it more easily recognizable. It is easier to worship and relate to a supreme God or Goddess than a Supreme Something-or-rather. I don't think anyone here is trying to define the Ultimate Creator, but rather trying to picture It on a level we as humans can grasp.

*nods* i think Kym nailed it...
For you U2 fans out there...I need to find the quote, but, according to my U2-Crazy friend, at some point the guys from U2 said that "Mysterious Ways" ("She moves in mysterious ways...") is about the female attributes of God...

But what I want to do is get specific here. Not so specific that the idea of the divine mystery of the feminine (or the devine mystery of the masculine) is limited, but simply to learn to appreciate it better. For example, femmes in the discussion, what things do you attribute to it?

For me, one part of it has always been intuition, which at times has been my only tie to the feminine. And that, only because people have always mentioned feminine intuition. I can loosely define it as knowing peoples emotions, and how people will react to each other in different roles, on an almost subconscious level... like when I introduce two people, and something clicks in my head, *bing* like I know that I just did something good on a cosmic level. Or knowing when I need to get away from someone, or what someone needs to hear as opposed to what I need to say....