Kevin's Watch

Well, with the Chronicles SRD *was* popular. So the question is, what happened since then?

Mordant's Need. Very different to Covenant - political intrigue, Terisa, ... I read MN once 15 years ago so I wont comment more.
Daughter of Regals. Short story collections rarely sell well (quoting SRD there I think...).
The Gap Series. Sooo dark and brutal. Too brutal for most people to enjoy - I'm not surprised it didnt sell that well - its appeal is limited to the hard-core SRD fan (us), the few who still read SRD from the Covenant days, and some new fans who like sci-fi and were curious for SRD's take on it. (And a few who saw the book on the shelf and thought 'why not?')
Reave the Just & Other Tales. See DOR comment.
The Reed Stephens mystery novels. Mystery novels from a successful fantasy author? A curiosity, a novelty. The genre does not show SRD at his best.
And now 'Runes'. I'm reading 'Runes' now. I'll wait till I've finished it before commenting on changes in SRD's popularity arising from it.

I have to throw this in. My wife keeps telling me that fantasy novels are often about a character's quest, their fight for sanity, for self-esteem, for a cause, and theyre often about escape. She argues that because of that, fantasy appeals to teenagers - boys especially. Given SRD's long periods between novels, I've grown up. She tells me that 'I shouldnt need to read fantasy anymore now that I'm mature.' Maybe part of SRD's readership outgrew their love of fantasy novels and SRD's work.

Not me though!

Well, duke, as she is your wife, I'll try to be diplomatic here. I'll just say that I personally have no intention of wasting my time in a relationship with any person who would have the gall to tell me what I should or should not read.

Matrixman My wife doesnt want me to spend my life *only* reading fantasy. That road doesnt lead to a well-rounded person. Oh, and she's seen me spend the last 4 months re-reading the first 6 Covenant novels (including 'The One Tree' on our honeymoon) in preparation for 'Runes', so she's a little frustrated.

Women express their love in strange ways

Getting back on topic - maybe the stigma of being labelled 'fantasy' is one reason why SRD isnt more popular. I know that when I walk into a bookshop and look for the Harry Potter novels, they are in both the children's section, and the general fiction section. Now I'm no expert, but surely Harry Potter is fantasy? If Rowling can have HP in 'general fiction', why can't SRD's Covenant novels be there too?

they should be in their own section.

I think it takes intelligent people to understand his writing. It makes you use your mind and not everyone uses their mind. Thats why there are books like Cat in the Hat and Dick and Jane.

..why isn't he more popular?,,easy answer is,,because nobody has made a movie yet of one of his books..In other words,,as an author,,he hasn't dumbed down to the commonest of denominater,,as in Geo W.
..I've read SRD stuff since beginning,,except his The Man Who work. While TC set the template,,I especially liked the GAP.
...True story:..in my young age while strolling in the mall with girl friend, she happened to pick up a book at bookstore and was leafing thru it. I noticed the art work on cover and made a presumptive remark like,," with all the great classics out there, why in the world would youwant to read that thrash? The insult was taken and turned around. She bought the book. On the way home, she drove that night,,i pulled the book out and started making snide remarks about fantasy. I started reading it in the car,,which of course caused great upsetting because,,,i couldn't put it down for the next 4 or 5 days. Of course, it was Lord Fouls Bane. Of course, the girl friend was highly aggitated on the turn of events,,of course my confessing that Iwas wrong on perspective meant that the book was mine for at least 4 or 5 days,,which really upset her. Such is life. Point is..there is a perception of Fantasy from the start. That may be the biggest hurdle to achieving mass popularity........MEL

There are other fantasy authors who never got movies made (Eddings/Brooks/Goodkind) and these guys are on the best seller list as soon as they release a book...which is strange since they keep writting the same books over and over again.

Maybe that's why. I think a lot of people *like* to read the same thing, over and over again. It's in their comfort zone. They have a pretty good idea where the story is going, and they don't have to work too hard. Same reason bodice rippers are popular (well, that and the steamy sex...).

I appreciate well-rounded characters, an actual plot, and correct grammar and punctuation. For those reasons, I cannot read much popular fiction, including most fantasy and SF.

BTW, duke, SRD's mystery novels were originally published under a pen name -- and I think they probably didn't sell because they weren't very good mysteries. (I'm not beating up on the man; he admitted as much himself in the GI not long ago!) Why they're not selling *now*, even with his real name attached -- well, I can't answer that for sure, but they're still not very good mysteries.

Really? From What I read I though they were great

I'm just going by personal experience. I'm usually lousy at figuring out where a mystery is going, but I can usually figure out where SRD's mysteries are going really early in the book. The characters are fun, though -- Brew cracks me up.

I have all the mysteries. Not the best, but I don't really care for a mystery anyway. From what I've read so far, the books - like everything else SRD writes - involves depth and characterization. Not something real normal in a mystery.(or anywhere else for that matter). I intend to read them eventually. One day I will sit down and the story will grab me. Then I can devour the entire series.

I tend to agree with the idea that SRD's a bit more highbrow than the average Xanth-esque crowd; his stories evoke more thought, more feeling, and more introspection than any other series I've ever read. I've seen everything from religious references to deep looks into the author's very soul. I come away from every one of SRD's books with a sense of learning, a feeling that tells me I not only entertained myself, but educated myself about some of the less tangible things in life. That never happened with Tolkien's books; all I felt after reading those was bored.

That's not to say Tolkien was a bad writer... just a dull one. However, I have to respect him for giving SRD some of the inspiration needed to write his Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, as well as making the fantasy genre a household subject.

I'm doing my best to recommend Stephen R Donaldson to everyone I know, (everyone whom I think has the patience, intellect, and understanding to read his work.) So far, I've only read the Covenant series, but it is standing up as the greatest series I've ever read and I want to share it with everyone whom I think is up for the task.

One of the people I recommended the Covenant books to was my best friend who definitely has the IQ to read and appreciate them, but the first chapter was too laden with what he found to be nauseating and depressing description. So he stopped reading them (didn't even get to the rape scene, which I thought would be his major obstacle), returned my book, and told me that he'd read them again when he was in a happier mood. Needless to say, he hasn't read them yet, and I believe this all happened three to four years ago.

Now, reading through this thread, post-by-post, I see that a lot of posters started with something else, saying that they put TCTC off entirely (until they were ready for it) or read a bit of it and returned to it much later. My question is what turned you off from it in the first place? And what made you read it eventually?

And what advice do you have to get my friend to just read it already? Should I start him on a different Donaldson series and hope that he appreciates SRD's writing style enough that he'll get through the dark beginnings to the TCTC series and eventually uncover the beauty of the Land that we all know and love? Should I start him somewhere else in the Covenant Trilogies? Or should I just give up?

And...one final thought. Is this a series that you think is a better read when you're in a happy mood or a depression? I've read it in both, and found that it gradually dragged me out of any ruts I was in.

It's like entertainment, therapy, and a lesson in humanity all rolled into one.

And that my friends... is why I love it so.

Welcome to the watch, GH. How's the movie going? Does Nick Cage make a good you?

I read TCTC when I'm down and depressed. It lifts me out. Not with candy fluffy life-is-good "Hello Bedford Falls" kind of stuff. But by the example of someone who finds his way out of the maze of despair.

SRD achieves his heights by providing contrasts. So the beginning, with the leprosarium and all, is meant to contrast the Land when Covenant arrives. You have to experience the lows to appreciate the highs. But I think that, if you have to explain that to someone too much, perhaps they won't appreciate TCTC after all.

Thank you for the welcome Wayfriend.

As far as the movie goes, I'm still iffy about what they can do with it. It's definitely going to be a special effects bonanza, I saw the bike 5 or 6 months ago and it looks sweet; (I WANT IT!! *drools*) I can only imagine what the Flaming Skull will look like. I worry about it going the way of the Spawn movie, though. (too much special effects and not enough story)

But onward to SRD discussion...

Okay, I have the feeling that I might have to abandon getting my friend to read it at all, but I'm stubborn and I don't want to.

I was asking for other SRD stories to read because it'd be a good strategy to show him as the phenomenal writer he is. That'd be sure to work, right? Once you get through a Donaldson story, you're hooked for life. Or is that just with the Chronicles?

Duke said:

Mordant's Need. Very different to Covenant - political intrigue, Terisa

So, for someone who's a fan of Atlas Shrugged, do you think he would be impressed by Mordant's Need?

I'm thinking of branching away from TCTC myself, while I wait for FR, the GAP series sounds interesting to me.

I'm in the middle of the Gap series at the moment, and I'm very impressed. Until the middle of the second book, it's interesting but not amazing. But after that, things really start to unfold, and it's in the process of blowing me away. Donaldson is definitely on form with this series.

And yes, his mysteries, while enjoyable enough, are fairly easy to figure out.

( OT: The flaming skull has been revealed, don't you know. To be absolutely spoiled, click here: site then click "The Rider Revealed". Then, let's continue the discussion of how friggin awesom that was when you start your Ghost Rider thread in the Flicks forum. )

This queston is vaguely related to SRD's popularity...(I'm almost certain. )

But has anyone seen re-releases of the original two series, (ala what was done with LOTR?) due to the pretty spectacular feat of an author picking up a series 20 years later? Or do re-releases only come when an older series gets the "movie treatment?"

I visit the used book store about once a month to see if I can snag copies of the series, to give the extras to those who are worthy, but am having problems finding copies of Lord Foul's Bane. (The cover to mine was desecrated in the moving process ...so I also need to find a copy of it for my own personal use.) But this cover desecration led me to thinking about what covers for the re-released Covenant books would look like.

It'd be nice to see new releases, especially if all the new covers were as gorgeous as the cover for Runes was.

CovenantJr wrote:I'm in the middle of the Gap series at the moment, and I'm very impressed. Until the middle of the second book, it's interesting but not amazing. But after that, things really start to unfold, and it's in the process of blowing me away. Donaldson is definitely on form with this series.

And yes, his mysteries, while enjoyable enough, are fairly easy to figure out.

The GAP is Phenominal.
S far as his mYsteries go..personally I've only read one, but SRD says himself they're more about the Charactors than the Mystery.
And I think Brew is the coolest Charactor ever.