Kevin's Watch

Sword and Staff, Murrin - instruments

Yes, as far as we know from the legends of the Lords, Foul created the banes of the Earth. But he was free then, and - as I tried to suggest in my Lord Foul fanfic - I doubt the fathomless expanses of eternity have quite the same laws of physics and whatnot as a (relatively) tiny, enclosed little world.

Ho humm. I could name one thing Foul is capable of that you wouldn't expect from someone with no particular power of their own, but I'd have to Spoiler it (you can probably guess what it is I'm referring to).

If knowledge is power, then Foul must be considered awesomely powerful. More, he proved himself able to defeat the Old Lords. Immortality is not a small thing either. Nor is the ability to wield the Illearth Stone as its master, rather than having it master you. The Elohim (!) refused to challenge Foul directly. Somehow he enslaved the Ravers, which aren't exactly weak beings, and reached across the gulf of worlds to create a self-mutilating cult in the Second Chronicles. Keep in mind he actually corrupted Earthpower and he did it while reduced to near-impotence!

Plus he has the whole nifty invisiblity thing going. And an IQ with at least four digits!

Spoiler

And he's proven capable of possessing people himself in Runes of the Earth.

I agree. It's knowing what's going on that is one of his main strengths. I think that one of the (many) things that makes TCOTC stand out, is the fact that Foul is not just a really evil really powerfull wizard or something like that.

drew wrote:I agree. It's knowing what's going on that is one of his main strengths. I think that one of the (many) things that makes TCOTC stand out, is the fact that Foul is not just a really evil really powerfull wizard or something like that.

Yes, I agree... and also, his comment "I suggest here, nudge there.." (paraphrasing) seems to be consistent with what he has done throughout the entire series of books.

I wonder what he *does* for the entire Second Chronicles? Stand around Kiril Threndor all day and twiddle his thumbs?

I wonder what he *does* for the entire Second Chronicles? Stand around Kiril Threndor all day and twiddle his thumbs?

I suspected that he watched TC and LA most of the time. Sent His Ravers after him when things looked unfavarable..laughed his a** off when the Elohim silenced TC (probebly thought, "why didn't I think of that?")
I'm sure he was thrilled at the turn out on the Island of the One Tree.
He knew most of what was going to happen though, so maybe he was just flipping a coin wondering what order to put the Sunbane in for the next week or so.

drew wrote: maybe he was just flipping a coin wondering what order to put the Sunbane in for the next week or so.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

CovenantJr wrote:I have no recollection whatsoever a green moon. I stand corrected. But still - at that point, Foul had the Illearth Stone, and since green is the Illearth colour...

Yes, the stone is the source of the color of the moon in TPTP, but it was the SoL in the dead hands of Elena that changed the moon, and LF used the Stone to control Elena, remember the green aura...

As far as what LF does... The Blood Guard name him correctly. He corrupts.

Corruption seems to be Foul's big number...no surprises there. Apart from which:

He's unkillable, at least while the Arch stands. No small advantage.
He can teleport himself and others, as he does when he removes himself and TC from Kiril Threndor to Kevin's Watch.
He must be able to use Earthpower, even if he loathes it. He wouldn't have been able to disguise himself amongst the Old Lords otherwise. And the fact that he sat on Kevin's council means that he knows all of Kevin's Lore, even if it's been superceded by events.

Apart from which, he is a master manipulator and strategist...

His sole power is corruption. Isn't that enough.

Corruption can't die because everything is corruptable.

Believe is corruptable

Love is corruptable

Faith is corruptable

Church is corruptable

Water is corruptable

etc..

As long as there is the land, there is corruption.

The Elohim knew that foul could corrupt them and they stayed as far away from him as possible.

"he can teleport himself and others"? If he could do that, why didn't he teleport the army closer to his enemies as opposed to having them march the distance.

Anyway,

Foul is corruption personified. Therefore, he will always exist.

"he can teleport himself and others"? If he could do that, why didn't he teleport the army closer to his enemies as opposed to having them march the distance.

He can - in LFB, he teleported Covenant out of Kiril Threndor to Kevin's Watch, then left Covenant there.

In TIW, "the presence of Corruption soon reseated itself in Ridjeck Thome..."

The reason not to teleport the army (assuming he had the power to move something THAT big!) was to attack the entire Land and conquer territory. You need to leave troops behind to secure territory already conquered.

samadhi Satansfist (when the story was told from his POV) had followed "his master's design" in forcing the people ahead of his army into Revelstone to starve them out and slaughter them in one place.

I always thought that The Creator had a hand in diverting Covenant to Kevins Watch.

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always thought that The Creator had a hand in diverting Covenant to Kevins Watch.

No, it was stressed pretty often that the Creator could not reach his hand through the Arch of Time - once the Covenant was in the Land he was beyond the Creator's influence...

I'd say that Kevin's watch was deffinatly Foul's choice only.
Two reasons.
1)-A little bit of irony; to let whom he hoped would be the final ruin of the Land start out where Kevin left off.
2)-Because there was this young little hottie picking stones nearby, who just happened to be in Love with Berek Halfhand.

I beleave it was said somewhere in the books, I can't remember which one, that Foul was the Creators' brother. After the Creator was finished making the earth, he noticed Foul next to him marring his creation. The Creator cast Foul onto his own creation and locked him there with the arch of time. If he is the Creators' brother, then he must have the same powers as the Creator.

His lack of obvious power could very well be symbolic.

Remember: One of the messages the books convey is that vast amounts of overt power really doesn't do a lot to further ones goals. That having power isn't necessarily a pathway to success. If Foul had such power, and that power advanced him towards his goals, that entire message is moot.

So it may very well be an intentional ploy to show that sometimes subtlety and cunning intelligence outweigh brute force.

If that were true, Foul would be more afraid of the lords then Covenant. All's they would have to do is get rid of Fouls army then Foul would be easy to kill. He lives to make people dispaire. He knows the power he has. What better to make your self stronger than to make them think they don't have a chance. Loul lives for this. The only way to defeat him is to not dispair.

Grimmand Honninscrave wrote:If that were true, Foul would be more afraid of the lords then Covenant. All's they would have to do is get rid of Fouls army then Foul would be easy to kill. He lives to make people dispaire. He knows the power he has. What better to make your self stronger than to make them think they don't have a chance. Loul lives for this. The only way to defeat him is to not dispair.

Perhaps Foul isn't so much a power that makes people despair as a manifestation of despair and other destructive emotions. Whether he's there or not, people still will lose hope; will destroy what they love, if they cannot save it. Foul is great at pushing things towards what break people, manipulating them into serving his ultimate goals. I feel that so long as people are capable of despair, Foul will exist, and when people forget about such emotions, they no longer become human. Thus is the paradox of his immortality.

Perhaps the Creator is representative of all "productive" emotions, such as hope, and Foul is his antethesis.

Armies or not, overt presence or not, he will always find a way to worm into whatever hope there is; such is the nature of what makes us human. Wherever we are, whatever we do, there's always the slim possibility of failure. I feel that's where what power Foul has comes from.

It's an interesting setting that we have in TCTC. If the Creator is Creation, one would think that his greatest Enemy, the one who marred his creation is antithesis of Creation, Destruction. But that's not really true, because the pure antithesis of the Earth's creation is the Worm, the very means of the World's end. So Foul comes somewhere in the middle. It is not entirely clear what his status and "function" , if any, he had when he was still free outside the Arch. Was he of equal status as the Creator? Was he a "lesser" being as Melkor was to Eru in Ea?

I'm not entirely certain that the Worm itself is "evil" and the antithesis of creation in itself. Remember, the Creator supposedly created the "universe" of sorts that the Land and its world exists in. so he would have had to have created the Worm. Perhaps it, in itself, is a tool of the Creator. Of gods, it's often difficult to discern the meaning of the bigger picture, so it's likely.

Kaseryn of the Gyre said that perfect tools cannot create perfection; perhaps this holds up for all of Creation, making the assumption that the Creator is a largely pure being. Perhaps the flaw of the Land's world is that it's based on a living being--a being that gives the desmene eldritch energies (Earthpower) but at the same time always teeters on destruction of such.

As for Foul's power compared to the Creator's, that's really hard to gauge. I mean, the Creator did a great job of making a cage (The Arch of Time) that Foul can't escape from. Perhaps the nature of this universe the Creator made limits his power in some fundamental way, so he's reduced a bit.

Sometimes I wonder if the Land is just a manifestion of the subconcious emotions and forces of the collective human psyche here on Earth. A "real" place generated on another plane of existance by us unwittingly. That supports my idea of the Creator and Despiser being two manifestations of two polar extremes of the human experience. But that's an entire other subject to explore...

Anyways, back to Foul's power...

It's quite obvious that Foul feeds off the emotions of his enemies. That was proven in TPTP, and furthermore how he seems at his peak--in his element--when his foes feel hopeless. So, what power he has can't be a typical fantasy "magical blast" sort of thing, and more of...an overwhelming presence. The ability to bend weaker beings wills to his, and either an extreme amount of intelligence to be able to see every possible outcome, or some strangely prophetic (but often innacurate) sense.

Obviously, overt power either won't accomplish his goals (In-line with one of the key points the books raise), or overt power isn't his to use. Otherwise, he'd just transport Covenant to his Creche in LFB, blast him to ashes, pick up the ring, and break the Arch. (Wouldn't that be a short book. )

So either:
1) Foul has limits/has certain powers that aren't very blatant.
2) Foul really enjoys making overly elaborate plans and gets a morbid sense of satisfaction out of making things difficult for himself.

Considering that, it's pretty safe to say the nature of his power lies in something far more subtle, and ultimately far more devestating: the darker half of human emotion, and the ability to wield it as a surgeon wields a scalpel: an exact, cutting tool.