Reading Runes: There’s No Sex in Your Violence

[Kenaustin Ardenol]

To me Runes is some of Donaldson's best work to date, he has matured incredibly as a writer but it still holds that Donaldson magic, I think all you guys that are a little disappointed just aint reading it right. The Wounded Land was always my favourite until now, I bought TWL the day it was released in australia and read it in 2hrs in the car outside the shopping centre while my mum was shopping, it devistated me. I must of read it twenty times before The one Tree came out. Runes evokes very similar feelings in me as TWL. More potential evils come to light in this book than all the other books combined, there is more mystery here than any of the other books, how can you be disappointed in the Demondim we haven't heard their story yet, we haven't felt them close up and I have no doubt we will get to know all these new evils intimately before the Chronicle closes.Not to mention that all of this has happened in only several days, The last Chronicles is in a completely differnet time frame, there's no room for padding and I certaintly didn't see any, every word is important.
To Quote a famous Simson's Authority on FictionFantasy
"Best Fantasy Work EVER"

[CovenantJr]

First of all - Kenaustin Ardenol: I enjoyed Runes, and it puts many books to shame; however, it simply doesn't have the something that caused the previous books to set me alight. But I reiterate: I wasn't overwhelmed by LFB the first time, so I wait...

Covenant is a very sensitive artist, and as such, sees the world in a much different way than Linden, a rather detached physician, does.

Interesting suggestion. Makes sense to me.

a mature intelligent practical woman protagonist

*choke, splutter, retch* All a matter of taste, I suppose

[ur-bane]

As has been mentioned in many other Runes posts, the book appears to be setting things up for the final 3 books.

In the First and Second Chronicles, the only real threats to the Earth were Covenant and Lord Foul.
Runes has introduced many new dangers and threats to the Earth. Runes has brought to light the fact that for every action there is a reaction...Covenant and Linden saved the Land and Earth, and in so doing set in motion a chain of events that is now being brought forth in Runes.

Esmer (friend and foe, all at once) would not exist had Covenant not given Cail permission to follow his desires.
Anele would not exist if Hile Troy had not sacrificed himself to break the Law of Life. The new staff would have ended up in someone else's hands had Hollian not been brought back to lfe, for certainly Sunder was too lost in his grief to continue with TC and LA.
Joan would not be a threat to the Land had her white ring not been restored to her.
Likewise, Roger and Jeremiah would have different fates.

Directly or indirectly , Linden's and Covenant's choices and actions in the past directly affected the conditions we meet in Runes.

Although the book is not as action-oriented and intense with its descriptions, I for one found true excitement in all the possibilities it suggests.

[lurch]

....two things keep revolving in my mind concerning some points being made..A)..In Runes everything is reverse,,ie..the un-belief is on behalf of the inhabitants of the Land,,instead of the main protagonist...B),,the violence of having ones child kidnapped seems to be unrelateable to posters ...Lindens extingency,,bottom line of motivation,,versus,, good things btw of evil means....the stomach wrenching, soul rippng paradox of the two isn't being connected to, by readers.
..I contend, that underlineing conflict is possibly more dark than readers want to deal with. There is something being made of connectivety to TC,,well how many have thought thru the situation of Linden,,whats at stake ,,and the delicacy of her decisions? Perhaps todays headlines are just to close to this Fantasy Fiction for comfort.?
...Again,,i suggest mental violence/ mental torture touches just as well, albeit with possibly more difficulty,,as physical. Everything is reverse in the Land from last visit by Linden...While I could feel the beating that Stave took from Esmer and the Humble..i have more interest in the feel of the wrenching decisions Linden has to make..as in with Anele and crew when the kresh attack,,the caesure,,etc..etc. Its as if...the physical beatings ,, heal and pass ,,but the mental difficulties have loooong lasting after effects. This is a elevation of story telling. As per SRD,,it was conceived of many years ago...Again,,Time is a major character it seems. And what is more compassionate?..........MEL

[wayfriend]

....the violence of having ones child kidnapped seems to be unrelateable to posters ...Lindens extingency,,bottom line of motivation,,versus,, good things btw of evil means....the stomach wrenching, soul rippng paradox of the two isn't being connected to, by readers.
..I contend, that underlineing conflict is possibly more dark than readers want to deal with.

I would contend that the author hasn't made that connection very well in the first place. There's no sense of pain or exigency in Linden's response to that abduction. She doesn't rail or cry or act irrationally or even have a bad day. Instead, she has a matter-of-fact, one-step-at-a-time, rational response. The narrative after the summonsing only touches on the reason for her adventure from time to time. Simply put, the psychological trauma which the abduction causes to Linden is not the Story in Runes - it's primarilly about Linden solving the mystery of Anele, the Staff, and the ceasures.

[duchess of malfi]

Actually, that can be a rather realistic reaction to a situation when your child is in extreme danger.

Everytime I have had to take my children into the ER due to some injury (oddly enough, every time they have been injured enough to take in to the ER it has been at school, but I digress) I have been very calm and logical and in control the entire time.

It is only when they have been patched up and out of danger that I fall apart emotionally.

I would think that this would be an even more likely reaction for Linden. As a physician she must stay level headed in times of danger to other people. Otherwise she would not be able to function at her job. If you cannot stay calm and somewhat detached how could you perform surgery, or give cancer chemotherapy -- things which in the short run cause great discomfort/pain to another human being, as beneficial as they might be in the long run?

I think we will be in for some serious cracking of Linden's careful emotional control, if and when she knows that her son is free and safe (I am reserving judgement on what appears to be happening at the end of the book).

[lurch]

..I was convinced of a sense of reality,,in Lindens actions,,before she was summoned. The panic seemed pallable,,the " worst fear" tore at my stomach..etc....Perhaps,,a certain shock,,overtakes the reader at that point,,,and the shock forms a barrier to the reader to " go there". As the Duchess points out,,Lindens behavior in The Land does seem to me as one of a parent trying his her best to maintain control while all around is...chaos..?....MEL

[CovenantJr]

I have to agree with Wayfriend again. Linden just didn't seem that bothered. Her actions in the Land were often driven by her search for Jeremiah, but it lacked emotional content; as for being rational under circumstances where your child is in danger - perhaps so, but her child is missing and (as far as Linden is concerned) in the clutches of the Despiser. That's some seriously panic-inducing stuff - she doesn't know where the kid is, and there's nothing she can do to help him. I can't help thinking Covenant would have reacted very differently. I cite the Stonemight Woodhelven incident (if memory serves) in which Covenant's distress nearly ripped a hole in the world at the mention of Joan. That seemed like genuine grief; Linden seems like she's lost her favourite cd.

[dlbpharmd]

I cite the Stonemight Woodhelven incident (if memory serves) in which Covenant's distress nearly ripped a hole in the world at the mention of Joan.

I know what you're saying but your example doesn't clarify your point - Covenant was in an envenomed delirium at this point it the story. Had he been in his right mind the mere mention of Joan's name would not have brought the same reaction.

[lurch]

...It seems to me..that every major decision she makes while in the Land,,at some point in her decision making process..is tied to the bottom line of Lord Foul has my Son. Its repeatd over and over. While she grows to understand the consequences of her decisions on the folks of the Land,,it is ALWAYS balanced with getting her son back. That is the whole basis for the Fear of the Masters..they believe she would easily sacrifice the Land for her son. Their closed "small" perception of the folks of the Land also doesn't allow them to see bigger possibilities in Linden. Staves relating of the Ranyhyn's Bigger perception in the Close,,cause'es the Masters to begin opening their perception..Decision to be forth coming.
...I know I have read the same words as everybody else. Foul and the rest of Land seems to either expect or have a high fear of,,Linden sacrificing the Land for her son...The character Linden ,,has already shown that its not so black and white as that. Its not going to be that easy. I mean..she has to re-introduce these folks to the beauty of the Land,,inorder to get them to help her find her son,,so she can sacrifice them all.........???..or not sacrifice them..?..I can feel the Pain of that Charlie Horse knot ..Thats a cramp of fine crafting imho.Despite the ending of Runes..I still think Difficulties will loom large in the gray. Somehow or another EarthPower has been corrupted. How much will she sacrifice to heal the corrupted Earth Power?..Lots of trade offs to come,,just like real life...
..Again..there is plenty of tension and conflict and arches of change in Runes..its just not as physical as one may wish nor is it complete..
...And while I am at it...lets go ahead and take a look at the MALE characters..the leading Male Characters...Liand...Stave...and Anele,,and to some slitely lesser degree Esmer and the male Ramen..in comparative relationship to the " Goddess " Linden...Consider, Liand as the wide eyed just about innocent youth,,infatuated with Her and what she has brought...Stave,,the solid hunk who isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and just takes a beating like no other,,what, hes down to one eye, one lung and half his usable limbs..and Anele,,the ancient olde fart,,blind but can see,,and is able to hear what no other can,,and just about out of touch with the reality around him...all at Her discression...Hey guys, feeling alittle ..little?...even beserk Esmer only gets even with Her.Try this...which one of those is closest to being you? Which one of those Do you relate to the most? If you can't relate to the character Linden and her situation,,then who can you relate to? Does Stave with his continual doubts of Her remind you of yourself,,especially after getting KO'ed by another of the outcomes of Her decisions to go where the outcome is uncertain?...or are just blow'in away like Liand by the results of trying something new and are on board for the adventure and experience?..or maybe,,gak,,ahem..you find convergence with the character Anele..in knowing sanity,,what is truth and beauty,,but have lost touch with it in a modern world..you can sympathize with his loss of being able to relate..Or,,are you sympathic to the Esmer,,unfortunate if you are,,imho he blames all on his parents..The only responsibilty he takes is making sure he blames his parents..Linden should offer him euthanization. Point being...The leading Male characters of Runes seem to be a almost stereotypical facsimile of the Male at His various stages of life..Is it possible there is fair facsimile represented in KW's posters?..Now,,I'm getting at a "level" that may be strictly of my own making,,but in any case,,its a level that allows itself to be conjured,,because of SRD writings . This is the Universal that i speak of in his writings. As i asked in the GI..i'm not sure if its just me or the author,,or both..but as i try to show in the above..like Anele,,maybe insane or not,,its there if you want to try..maybe you'll hear your own rune?.......MEL

[wayfriend]

I can't help thinking Covenant would have reacted very differently. I cite the Stonemight Woodhelven incident (if memory serves) in which Covenant's distress nearly ripped a hole in the world at the mention of Joan. That seemed like genuine grief; Linden seems like she's lost her favourite cd.

Or just look at Anele. Now there's grief!

Lurch, no one is disputing that any and every action Linden undertook was to retrieve her son. The problem is, the story doesn't emotionally involve us in it. I have to admit, you are right - in the prologue, we can feel the desparation and the fear from Linden. But it seems to evaporate when she reaches the Land. Is she doing her level-headed best to retrieve her son? Assuredly. But is it emotionally engaging? I don't find it so. I find Anele's and even Stave's plights much more emotionally gripping.

[ur-bane]

...I have to admit, you are right - in the prologue, we can feel the desparation and the fear from Linden. But it seems to evaporate when she reaches the Land. Is she doing her level-headed best to retrieve her son? Assuredly. But is it emotionally engaging? I don't find it so. I find Anele's and even Stave's plights much more emotionally gripping.

Could the lack of emotional attachment we feel from Linden at this point be because we don't know enough about Jeremiah? Or could it be because of the lack of both Covenant and Jeremiah in her life up until now in Runes?

I can't help feeling that this detachment is deliberate on the part of SRD as a means to contrast the expected emotions we will see in Fatal Revenant.
At least, I hope so.

[variol son]

Detachment is often used as a coping mechanism as well. It is possible that Linden can only cope with Jeremiah's lack of response to her if she remains detached.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[drew]

There's really no point to her running around, tearing her hair out screaming, "Foul has my Son, Foul has my Son" over and over again.
She's a smart person.
She knows how the Land works, and how (somewhat) Foul works. She knows that she has to play the game; so to speak, if she really does want to get back to Jeramiah.
She also knows how the time frame works...if it takes her six months to find him, that's only the rest of the night in the real world.
She also realizes that she's is not going to live---or at least that's what she thinks--so her goal is (probebly) save Jerry, and get him back to the Real world, safe and sound, even though it's going to be without her. She knows that the best way to do it, is to keep her cool about the whole thing.
Although, she really screwed things up with the whole time travel thing!!
I don't think that SRD is doing a poor job portraying a parent of a missing child, I think he's doing an excellent job portraying a parent of missing child, who knows how to keep her head about things.

-For that reason I still say that Runes should be featured as an Oprah Book club Book

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4938&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

-it's about the fourth post down.

[ur-bane]

In a way, I think we may be straying a bit.

I think we can all agree that Linden feels "detached" so far in Runes.
But we have also started to focus on Linden as being detached from things in the story as opposed to the reader feeling detached from Linden. But I think they walk hand in hand.
How can we feel attached to Linden when she herself is written as detached?

I have to agree with Wayfriend in his initial thread.....

I don't feel Linden yet as I did in The Second Chronicles.
In a way, to me, it feels like she is an observer rather than a participant.
Right now, if she fell in combat, I don't think I would grieve as I would have had she fallen in the Wightwarrens in WGW.

[lurch]

....Consider...SRD wants to ask,,or propose, a situation to You. yes I mean YOU,,you , who is reading this post now. SRD knows nothing of you besides general traits shared by most civil and intelligent human beings. But the proposed question,,situation, is of such ,,,paradoxial nature..that the actual " yield" of the proposed,,is what we find out about ourselves,,rather than a rite or wrong answer to a proposal that has no rite or wrong answer.
...Linden seems detatched from us. Linden,,may be " us" mirrored by the author. By the time( there is that etheral Time character, like Esmer, cuts both ways) we arrive at the cataclysmical point of the asked proposal( as in the " super" paradoxial bargain offered to Linden( us), by His Foulness,),we know Linden ( ourselves) well enough to understand her decision...( Yes, Linden and The Reader are same, as from the angle of the Author.)
...So..the mystery and the path of discovery, has to start some where. From the outside, detatched, is usually the place to begin on a journey towards inner understanding. SRD,,wants the reader to go thru much,,each enligthening a little about ourselves( and thus Linden),,so when he springs the BIG Paradox on Us,,we are prepared. As hinted by SRD..its the internal conflicts that he is writing about. ...
...and...uuuummmm...didn't a certain Leading Male Character..." withdraw" for a good portion of 2nd Chron?..talk about detatched....
..Since you've begun with the Demondim...maybe they are an excellent metaphor for my point...At first,,it was assumed that they were attacking..when with time,,it became realized by Linden,,that they were " herding"...The same could be said about the perceived nature of feeling detatched............MEL

[ur-bane]

...and...uuuummmm...didn't a certain Leading Male Character..." withdraw" for a good portion of 2nd Chron?..talk about detatched....

That is completely different from our current situation with Linden. Covenant as a character did not "withdraw." He had his mind closed by the Elohim. But he was still very much invloved in the tale. You, as the reader (So I guess according to you, here, we are Covenant) still feel for Covenant. You can sympathize with his plight. He is not emotionally detached from us readers. He is in our thoughts, in the thoughts of the characters around him. Giants risked their lives to summon nicor for Covenant. We felt the pain of the white gold coccoon. Although within the tale his mind is closed, he as a character is still very much emotionally invloved in the story. There are true dangers awaiting him.

Linden's plight is different. As pointed out earlier in this thread, her "perils" are vague and indirect. They don't emotionally draw the reader in in Runes as in previous books in the Chronicles.

In Runes so far, Linden is "going through the motions." But in me, at least, she hasn't awakened the same emotions as in the past.

[CovenantJr]

I cite the Stonemight Woodhelven incident (if memory serves) in which Covenant's distress nearly ripped a hole in the world at the mention of Joan.

I know what you're saying but your example doesn't clarify your point - Covenant was in an envenomed delirium at this point it the story. Had he been in his right mind the mere mention of Joan's name would not have brought the same reaction.

If you know what I'm saying, surely it does clarify my point Oh well, I'll try to tidy this up a bit. What I was getting at wasn't the reason for Covenant's extreme expression of grief; it was the fact that his distress was palpable, almost overwhelming, and not solely because it was accompanied by wild magic. That was just the example that came to mind (I don't have the encyclopedic knowledge of the chrons some do). The point I was trying to make was: That scene was highly affecting and emotionally evocative, and we suffered along with Covenant - and not for the first time. There is little - if anything - that matches such potent and consuming expressions of emotion in Runes.

[lurch]

..Well,,I hear what you and others are saying...I just can't find myself there..I suspect,,it has to do with suspending disbelief,,for a male character versus ,,suspending disbelief for a female character. Ive re-read the real world and " summoning" chapters over and over. I have found those to be even more compelling than any of the TC real world chapters or summoning chapters.
..Again,,the difference ,,perhaps yet another metaphor,,Tc trudges thru the Land weighted with his disbelief. Linden,,is on a high wire act..where every movement, every step has to be thought out and carefully executed,,..What I am pointing out,,may be,,the difference between male and female,, There is finesess in her thought and actions . As said by others,,its amazing that SRD even attempts such a character,,and impressive at the execution of it. I am just about ready to float a thread on comparing SRD's Linden,,with Flaubert's Emma..any takers?...MEL

[High Lord Tolkien]

The point I was trying to make was: That scene was highly affecting and emotionally evocative, and we suffered along with Covenant - and not for the first time. There is little - if anything - that matches such potent and consuming expressions of emotion in Runes.

I agree 100%.

But....we already had the 1st Chronicles to reinforce how much Joan means to Thomas.
I wonder if it would have had the same impact .....................
Nevermind. We had the entire 2nd Chronicles to get to know Linden.

Maybe Linden is just a poor character.
I can't remember her giving me any emotional highs in the 2nd Chronicles either now that I think about it.
It's always been TC.
Even Sunder and Hollian and Seadreamer moved me more than Linden.
But maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed them as much as I do if Linden was better, imho.