Kevin's Watch

Homosexuality isn't connected to pedophilia.

This is plainly false. Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men. Although exclusive pedophilia (adult attraction to prepubescent children) is an extreme and rare phenomenon, one third of homosexual men are attracted to teenage boys (Jenkins, Priests and Pedophilia). The seduction of teenage boys by homosexual men is a well-documented phenomenon. This form of deviant behavior is the most common type of clerical abuse and is directly connected to homosexual behavior.

I'm sorry, but this is just like me saying that Catholic priests are three times more likely to be pedophiles than other men. It is simply one group targeting another group to shift focus from themselves.

In all honesty dennis, the proportion of gay men who subscribe to the beliefs of groups like The Man-Boy Love Association is just as small as the proportion of Catholic priests who sexually molest children.

In both cases, the larger group; for you Catholics and for me Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and the Transgendered; suffer huge negative consequences because of the choices of a small number of individuals within the group. Trying to get the heat off ourselves by pointing fingers at the other group is just counter-productive.

Yes, many gay men are attracted to younger men, and an 18 or 19 year old guy in a gau club can be assured a lot of attention. This stems I believe from the gay sub-cultures preoccupation with beauty, which is born out of insecurity, and also from the fact that gay men are denied the right to a long-term monogamous relationship.

Too many gay men I know lives their lives to score the hottest new young guy on the scene because, being gay, they can never fall in love and settle down and grow old together, or so they believe. The law and public attitudes prevent this.

Anyway, even more documented I can imagine are older men seducing young girls. But that only ends in rape, sexually transmitted infections, unplanned pregnancy, abortion, and solo mothers. Apparently homosexuality is so much worse than all these things that they aren't even on the same planet.

Finally, any scientific evidance I have ever heard of suggests that pedophilia is almost entirely a heterosexual male illness. While some gay men and some women may engage in it, it is straight men who committ crimes of this nature 99% of the time.

Sum sui generis
Vs

VS! Good to see you around again, you've been denying us your presence recently.

Good post too. I must say I agree. As I said earlier, that point was the one that I really had the most problems with. Again, well said.

--Avatar

variol son wrote:

Homosexuality isn't connected to pedophilia.

This is plainly false. Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men. Although exclusive pedophilia (adult attraction to prepubescent children) is an extreme and rare phenomenon, one third of homosexual men are attracted to teenage boys (Jenkins, Priests and Pedophilia). The seduction of teenage boys by homosexual men is a well-documented phenomenon. This form of deviant behavior is the most common type of clerical abuse and is directly connected to homosexual behavior.

I'm sorry, but this is just like me saying that Catholic priests are three times more likely to be pedophiles than other men. It is simply one group targeting another group to shift focus from themselves.

In all honesty dennis, the proportion of gay men who subscribe to the beliefs of groups like The Man-Boy Love Association is just as small as the proportion of Catholic priests who sexually molest children.

In both cases, the larger group; for you Catholics and for me Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and the Transgendered; suffer huge negative consequences because of the choices of a small number of individuals within the group. Trying to get the heat off ourselves by pointing fingers at the other group is just counter-productive.

Yes, many gay men are attracted to younger men, and an 18 or 19 year old guy in a gau club can be assured a lot of attention. This stems I believe from the gay sub-cultures preoccupation with beauty, which is born out of insecurity, and also from the fact that gay men are denied the right to a long-term monogamous relationship.

Too many gay men I know lives their lives to score the hottest new young guy on the scene because, being gay, they can never fall in love and settle down and grow old together, or so they believe. The law and public attitudes prevent this.

Anyway, even more documented I can imagine are older men seducing young girls. But that only ends in rape, sexually transmitted infections, unplanned pregnancy, abortion, and solo mothers. Apparently homosexuality is so much worse than all these things that they aren't even on the same planet.

Finally, any scientific evidance I have ever heard of suggests that pedophilia is almost entirely a heterosexual male illness. While some gay men and some women may engage in it, it is straight men who committ crimes of this nature 99% of the time.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Honestly, I think it goes back to the outdated idea that rape of any kind is about sex. Pedophilia is pretty much the ultimate expression of rape being about power and control, but not sex, and priestly pedophilia more so.

It's like, "It's not enough that this child has no frame of reference for the things I'm going to make it do -- it's also convinced that I'm in charge of where it's soul goes after death!"

(The use of the word "it" is intentional. Y'all can figure out why.)

Variol has made a good point. I have a very good friend who is a gay male, and he would be just as sick as Fist at the thought of having sex with a little kid.

Now, he might look appreciatively at a guy in his late teens with a good body -- but straight males certainly look appreciatively at females in their late teens who are attractive and no one thinks twice about that.

Homosexuality has nothing to do with child molestation -- and I say this as someone who was molested as a child by a woman. It's because the molestor is someone who is all screwed up inside -- as I said before, molestation is the product of mental/emotional/moral illness.

variol son wrote:In all honesty dennis, the proportion of gay men who subscribe to the beliefs of groups like The Man-Boy Love Association is just as small as the proportion of Catholic priests who sexually molest children.

I think what's needed is some sort of Gay Men's Governing Council. It would certainly be in charge of many more issues than just pedophilia, but when such cases are brought to its attention, it could offer money to the parents, then send the offending homosexual to another district. If the general public never finds out about it, there's no need to register as a sex offender.

Fist and Faith wrote:

variol son wrote:In all honesty dennis, the proportion of gay men who subscribe to the beliefs of groups like The Man-Boy Love Association is just as small as the proportion of Catholic priests who sexually molest children.

I think what's needed is some sort of Gay Men's Governing Council. It would certainly be in charge of many more issues than just pedophilia, but when such cases are brought to its attention, it could offer money to the parents, then send the offending homosexual to another district. If the general public never finds out about it, there's no need to register as a sex offender.

Bud, you need to learn to seperate pedophilia from homosexuality. Homosexuals don't need to be connected to pedophiles any more than Straights need to be connected to "standard" rapists.

Heh. I was being sarcastic. When vs said that homosexuality doesn't need to be connected to pedophilia any more than Catholic priests do, I thought I'd suggest the same course of action the Church used for those who are pedophiles, so they can get away with it in the same way the priests did. I didn't use an emoticon, because there wasn't one for sarcasm. But I guess I should have done something, eh?

Oohhh. I missed it. Sorry.

Just a limitation of this method of communicating.

Still, a bit red-faced here.

Your original point is well-taken.

Uh, one more thing I want to add here. When people talk about homosexual men being attracted to younger guys, like 14-17, well I spend a whole lot of time with straight guys, and when no one is around, some guys say the damned sickest things about 14-15 year old girls.
I try not to let it get to me, but it's always there. If there's some 14 year old girl that hit puberty like a brick wall, and I'm with a random collection of 5 guys, chances are someone is going to say something about her.

Just making the comparison. For some reason, often when gays are being discussed, they're discussed as some kind of seperate phenomenon away from human sexuality, as though they would operate under different rules, etc. How many 50 year old men want to sleep with 16 year old girls? Not all. Maybe not the majority. But you sure as heck wouldn't have trouble finding volunteers.

JemCheeta wrote:...For some reason, often when gays are being discussed, they're discussed as some kind of seperate phenomenon away from human sexuality, as though they would operate under different rules, etc. How many 50 year old men want to sleep with 16 year old girls? Not all. Maybe not the majority. But you sure as heck wouldn't have trouble finding volunteers.

Well said Jem.

--A

It all makes sense to me, except #6. I'm with Vs on that one. Blaming pedophilia on GLBTs is as ridiculous as blaming it on religious celibacy.

The fact is, we're such a straight-oriented society (I'll allow that demographics indicate there's an understandable reason for this) that any "alternative" sexual practices--including celibacy--are viewed with a certain amount of suspicion by the public at large. I think this leads to a sort of knee-jerk association of actual sexual deviance with anything perceived as sexual "otherness:" "That person doesn't have sex the way I have sex, so they could be capable of anything." And that's just (if you'll forgive me) hooey.

Myste wrote:It all makes sense to me, except #6. I'm with Vs on that one. Blaming pedophilia on GLBTs is as ridiculous as blaming it on religious celibacy.

The fact is, we're such a straight-oriented society (I'll allow that demographics indicate there's an understandable reason for this) that any "alternative" sexual practices--including celibacy--are viewed with a certain amount of suspicion by the public at large. I think this leads to a sort of knee-jerk association of actual sexual deviance with anything perceived as sexual "otherness:" "That person doesn't have sex the way I have sex, so they could be capable of anything." And that's just (if you'll forgive me) hooey.

It's probably a visceral reaction we've all had at one time or another. So much identity is tied up in sexuality, it's such a basic and primal part of who we are, there's got to be something slightly disconcerting about someone whose basic premise is completely different.

It takes a lot of life experience to overcome those basic reactions.

Which brings us back to the whole "Fearing whats different" thing, which is tied to far more than just sex.

--A

Number six states:

Homosexuality isn't connected to pedophilia.

The text in number seven states:

In 1975, the Church issued another document called "Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics" (written by Joseph Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger) that explicitly addressed, among other issues, the problem of homosexuality among priests. Both the 1967 and 1975 documents addressed kinds of sexual deviancy, including pedophilia and ephebophilia, that are is especially prevalent among homosexuals.


Why does the church have all of these inconsistencies? First they say homosexuality isn't connected to pedophilia and then they say that pedophelia is prevalent among homosexuals.

This confuses me. To argue one point they say one thing and to argue another point they say another.[/b]

whoops, I messed up the quoting thing, sorry!

What I wrote begins after the bold text.

Will try to do better in the future!

--LR

Aah, you see, that article is concerned with myths about priestly pedophilia.

#6, "Homosexuality isn't connected to pedophilia", is the Myth that they think they're debunking.

--Avatar

duh *blush*