Kevin's Watch

That's all very well, but if my experience is anything to go by, it's going to tail off terrifyingly fast. From record box-office at midnight to half-empty cinemas, in less than 24 hours!

Loremaster,

Were there Imperials in this movie? If so, how were they?

Just got back from seeing it. Much, much better than Episodes 1 and the horrendous 2. Portman's acting still sucks, but she didn't have too many scenes, so that helped a lot. I think the book was a lot better, but that's usually the case with me, except in very rare exceptions.

Mhoram:

Spoiler

One of the final scenes was Sidious and Vader watching the construction of the Death Star from what certainly appears to be an Imperial Destroyer. And a guy named Captain Antilles shows up (maybe the father of Wedge?) And Senator Bail Organa has a small but important part. Chewie also has a small part. So yes, people important in one way or another to the classic trilogy do appear in the movie.

My main complaint would be that

Spoiler

the fights and action scenes seem toned down from the book...too many easy, crappy deaths...

Lord Mhoram wrote:Loremaster,

Were there Imperials in this movie? If so, how were they?

The Empire starts up 3/4 into the movie when Palpatine declares himself Emperor. In the last ten minutes we see a fleet of Star Destroyers. On the bridge we see Imperial officers operating in the bridge pits, and Tarkin and Vader looking out at the frame of the Death Star. Tarkin walks off and the Emperor walks in. That's about it.

duchess, Loremaster,

Not bad. Better than the Trade Federation and Clone troopers.

Dave:

Spoiler

One of my favorite parts was Vader cold-bloodedly slaughtering the Trade Federation leaders towards the end of the movie. I know that probably makes me a sicko but I hated those guys...

Kay,

Sweet. Yeah, those guys were pretty lame. And Vader's the man.

Loremaster wrote:True.

General Grievous gets my vote as most pointless character of all time.

You consider Jar Jar more important than Grievous?

Loremaster wrote:I think it was a ploy, because see how he acts following the incident; he was healthy.

Well done.



I've just been watching it, and it was amazing. I can't believe the crap I'm reading. This film ruled. It was amazing, it's just that simple. The action sequences are amazing to watch... the Lightsaber duels between Vadar and Obi-Wan... Yoda and Sidious... were just the best Lightsaber fights we've ever seen in the entire series. The final half hour had me on the edge of my sit.

And you know what else I'm fed up of? Apart from people conplaining about this film? people flattering Empire Strikes Back. Honestly, the film wasn't that good. The only reason I may have taken great pleasure in watching that film is the huge shocker of Vader being Luke's father. I think that's the main reason why people say that's their favourite film. Because they like huge shockers. But other than that, the film wasn't that good. I'm serious. People call that film 'Dark', please, spare me, the Sahara Desert at noon is darker than that crap.

Now, Revenge of the Sith, that is a dark film. Not of the kiddie's like crap of the other five films. This film is for adults. It was amazing. Dramatic. Moving... not like the other films. Where the main part of the excitment was to have a guy with his hand in a sock to chase the Falcon out of the meteor. bah to you all.

So, what then, you're upset? Well, I'll let you know my opinion in the next several hours.

What I like best about Empire is Yoda and Degobah. I'm really into swamps, and the visuals were excellent. And Yoda was awesome! Unfortunately, he changed after that movie. Or, more accurately, we got to know him better, and the thrill was gone. If every other line of his wasn't, "Difficult to see. Always in motion, is the future." Why the heck did anyone ever ask him about the future?!? He doesn't know! Move on!

But in Empire, he had great wisdom.
-"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try."
-"Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter."
-"I don't believe it." "That is why you fail."

He was slammin'!

The chief reason I like Empire is that it actually contains dialogue that develops the characters in an interesting way. Leigh Brackett's script is several orders of magnitude more sophisticated than anything in any of the other scripts.

Consider the feeble mush that is the love scene between Anakin and Padme in Sith. ('You're so beautiful because I'm so much in love with you.' Horrible.) Then consider the genuine sexual tension between Han Solo and Leia in Empire, every line carefully tailored to show that these characters are falling in love against their will, and both are desperately trying not to show it — Leia by denying it and playing the Ice Queen, Han by pretending that Leia has a schoolgirl crush and he doesn't feel a thing:

'Frankly, I'd rather kiss a Wookiee.' — 'I can arrange that!'

'You don't have enough scoundrels in your life.'

—etc., etc. Leading up to the climactic lines:

'I love you!'

'I know.'

Even at this point, though Leia is willing to break down and admit the truth, Han is still clinging to the wreckage of his bad-boy image — it's the closest thing he has to dignity at that point, when he's about to be frozen for shipment like a side of Australian beef. But he lets the mask slip just enough to acknowledge that he really does understand what's going on between them, yet does it without any trace of sentimentality.

At least for parts of the film, Leigh Brackett turned the cardboard cutouts of A New Hope into characters we could actually begin to care about. No other screenwriter for the Star Wars series ever managed that.

Leia and Han was never a good love story. They had no chemistry. Water and Oil spark a larger infero than Ford and Fisher.

That's as may be, D.R. I was referring specifically to the script. A sufficiently clumsy actor can destroy the chemistry in any situation.

I didn't think that even the infamously wooden Carrie Fisher quite managed to wreck the chemistry between Leia and Han. But it was there in the lines as written, something that none of the other Star Wars films ever had to even the slightest degree.

I have actually known people to use those bits of dialogue as textbook examples of how to create sexual tension in a script.

Darth Revan wrote:And you know what else I'm fed up of? Apart from people conplaining about this film? people flattering Empire Strikes Back. Honestly, the film wasn't that good. The only reason I may have taken great pleasure in watching that film is the huge shocker of Vader being Luke's father. I think that's the main reason why people say that's their favourite film. Because they like huge shockers. But other than that, the film wasn't that good. I'm serious. People call that film 'Dark', please, spare me, the Sahara Desert at noon is darker than that crap.

Were we watching the same film? Empire Strikes Back is the Hamlet of space-operas; it's tragic; it's morally ambiguous! The good guys get their ass handed to them throughout it. They suffer for their flaws (Luke is impatient and won't finish his training on Dagobah, and thus he suffers). It doesn't end in celebration but on a hollow note.

Further, I'll argue for Empire simply because no other film in the Star Wars cannon effectively explores the emotional depth of their characters. No scene is wasted; even Chewie and the droids develop dimensions, show humanity (just watch the scene when they close the door on Han and Luke at the Hoth base). And then, after the audience invests into them, these characters are ran through a gauntlet.

For that reason, no other Star Wars film had me in as much suspense. I truly can't understand how one could see nothing beyond the "I am your father" line. The ice battle, Yoda, Han escaping through the meteor field, Cloud City, carbonite, the love story, you name it. That's freaking drama, folks. Classically-told operatic tastiness, doused in the all-important Star Wars glow.

Another point: the ice battle on Hoth not only shows the spectacle of battle but the preparation before it. That gives the viewer some emotional investment into the battle. With Episode III, it's usually a quick cut into the battle and no prior emotional investment. Glitz and glamour.

Variol Farseer wrote: At least for parts of the film, Leigh Brackett turned the cardboard cutouts of A New Hope into characters we could actually begin to care about. No other screenwriter for the Star Wars series ever managed that.

Amen, brother! Well said stuff.

Well, I've seen it 3 times now, and I still love it. I'm also starting to see the OT in a whole new light as well.

Well...

*hesitates*

Sorry to say I wasn't too happy with it. My problem was that so much was lost from the book. Some of the things that lead to Anakin's confusion and anger; the timing and intricacies of Palpatine's plotting; even Palpatine's "ad-lib" lines to Mace when they showed up to arrest him. And I totally understand Loremaster's opinion of Grievous!

I was truly wondering how anyone could make sense of it without knowing what was in the book.

But I guess it worked for many of those who didn't read it first, as Darth and dlb show. Thank goodness, eh?

I enjoyed the movie, but completely agree that the book was a lot better.

Well, I haven't read the book and don't plan to, but I had no trouble at all following the plot. The political manoeuvring is actually fairly simple (whatever complications may have been added to make the book work as a novel).



Upon reflection, Padme is unbelievably naive for someone who has been in high politics since her teens. 'So this is how democracy dies: to thunderous applause.' Well, of course it is. If you genuinely have democracy, you have to get the approval of the great mass of the people to do away with it; and if you don't, the rulers can force the people to applaud.

In the wise words of McLean and McLean, the scatological Canadian comedy duo of the 70s and 80s:

'When Mao Tse-tung died, 800 million Chinese wept. A quarter of mankind wept.

'They had to, or they'd be ****ing shot!'

Disappointed, Fist? Truly? I mean, I can tell you hate to say it. Come on, that last hour was brilliant! You didn't come away smiling from that Obi-Wan/Anakin/Yoda/Palpatine climax? Bah! Like you once said, Fist, the movies are more or less a visual thing, and, in that context, I thought it was a superb ride.

In one way, I'm glad I didn't read the book. Not a fan of novelizations, anyway. It would've just been baggage for me, hindering the moviegoing experience. To me, Star Wars shines brightest when on the screen, much like Shakespeare's plays breathe more on stage than on a page.

Variol Farseer wrote:'So this is how democracy dies: to thunderous applause.' Well, of course it is. If you genuinely have democracy, you have to get the approval of the great mass of the people to do away with it; and if you don't, the rulers can force the people to applaud.

Genius!!

Fist and Faith wrote:Well...

*hesitates*

Sorry to say I wasn't too happy with it. My problem was that so much was lost from the book. Some of the things that lead to Anakin's confusion and anger; the timing and intricacies of Palpatine's plotting; even Palpatine's "ad-lib" lines to Mace when they showed up to arrest him. And I totally understand Loremaster's opinion of Grievous!

I was truly wondering how anyone could make sense of it without knowing what was in the book.

But I guess it worked for many of those who didn't read it first, as Darth and dlb show. Thank goodness, eh?

duchess of malfi wrote:I enjoyed the movie, but completely agree that the book was a lot better.

I completely agree with all of you that the book was better. I can't not agree; seen as it was. It was more detailed, not rushed. And explained fully why Anakin fell to the Dark Side... and I thought it was a deep shame that the part when Dooku and Sidious aka Palpatine were talking about whether Anakin was the right man for the job of starting the Empire, and that entire part was cut out. And several talks between Anakin and Palpatine were cut short or cut out completely; but that doesn't change the fact that this film was amazing. The final half hour just had me in awe...

Disappointed, Fist? Truly? I mean, I can tell you hate to say it. Come on, that last hour was brilliant! You didn't come away smiling from that Obi-Wan/Anakin/Yoda/Palpatine climax

Couldn't agree with you more Lord Foul. That was just... amazing.

No matter how good the book was and is, it can't create the amazingness that comes with a good lightsaber duel.