Kevin's Watch

For my part, finding comparisons between TCTC and Viking mythology is just having fun. There are so many influences on the series (Viking mythology, Buddhism, Hinduism, Tolkein, etc) that it is impossible to see it as a re-telling of one thing or another. My list of comparisons certainly stretches things. Heck, the krill could have been influenced by Excaliber. Or a can of Lysol!

I actually looked up "krill"...and the dictionary says it's plankten like fishies that whales eat..

go figure

Yeah, I forgot to include marine life in my list of things that influenced TCTC.

LOL! maybe the Nicor are mutated plankten fishie thingies...

ya think?

That just might be it! And hey, you even know the official scientific term: plankten fishie thingies!

that's me, "miss scientific"

I remember while reading The One Tree that The Worm of the World's End reminded me of the serpent Ouroboros. I beleive many cultures share the story of the worm who bites its own tail. In some of the stories this worm "holds up" the earth, too. I think the Norse have an Ouroboros, but he has a different name. I don't really know much except about it except what I just wrote. (And there was a hippie jam band at my college who named themselves Ouroboros!)

Anyone know about this story?

-lorien

Lorien, you're right about other cultures and the Oroborous. A great book to read for more on this is The Worm Oroborous by E. R. Eddison, not only does the preface explain the origins and symbology of the Worm but it's also a great fantasy. The language is a little archaic and choppy, but once you get used to Eddison's style you can then enjoy his acclaimed Mezantian Trilogy: A Fish Dinner in Memison, The Mezantian Gate and Mistress of Mistresses. Edison wrote it in the 30s before Tolkien and in my opinion is he's the granddaddy of "High Fantasy".

As far as I can tell from discussions both here and on the old board re: the "Lysol" scene, I believe it refers to Saltheart Foamfollower's immersion and "rebirth" in the lava of Hotash Slay. ringthane and I we talking about this at Bubonicon an we came to the conclusion that althought he was considered the "Pure One" by the jerherenum it wasn't until he undergoes this most intense caamora that he is truly "absolved" or "disinfected" from his violent and unnatual madness, as it were...

Boy, do I feel like a clone!! Yes, the Vikings had their Midgard Serpent, Jormungand. He and Thor slay each other in the end. I can't believe I didn't think of that one!!

You don't suppose Berek stole my shtick, and learned the runes that he carved on that other Staff of Law by hanging himself from the One Tree for nine nights, do you?

dmm,jmttbttt

What he said.

Fist and Faith wrote:dmm,jmttbttt

I forget what it means, its from the Internet speak thread in Gne Disc.

Dont mind me just......something about bumping a thread.

"Don't mind me, just moving this thread back to the top."
Didn't Jay come up with that one?

IIRC, Jay said he got it from someone at another site.

Whitegold even sounds like Rheingold

Good one, arenn!

And Welcome to the Watch!!

One of the parallels that jumped out to me a bit (between Wagner and Donaldson) was the necessity of freedom concept.

Wotan, having struck a deal with the giants, couldn't go back on his word. So he decided to create a hero (Siegmund) who would win back the ring without Wotan's intervention.
It is later pointed out to Wotan by one of the other gods that since he's both sired Siegmund and left him an enchanted sword, Siegmund can in no way be considered an independant party, so (eventually) he gets killed by Wotan.

Yes, Wotan's power came from the bargains he made with other people, bargains which he carved into a staff from the World Tree which literally wrote them into the natural law of the world. If he broke his word, the staff would shatter and his power would be finished.

What I don't understand is why he made the deal to build Valhalla with the Giants. It was obvious that it would mean his downfall. Clearly, Wotan was a clever negotiator as he managed to build up his powers through his treaties. This seems a big oversight.

We should, perhaps, be thankful that he did so. The siezing of the Rheingold by Alberich and subsequent fashioning of the Ring were completely independent of Wotan. Yet Wotan was really the only person able to stand up to Alberich and keep the dwarf from becoming king of the cosmos. Had Wotan not had to think fast on his feet to dodge his deal with the Giants, Alberich might have ended up on top.

Of course this brings up another parallel: the Giants as builders.

What I don't understand is why he made the deal to build Valhalla with the Giants. It was obvious that it would mean his downfall. Clearly, Wotan was a clever negotiator as he managed to build up his powers through his treaties. This seems a big oversight.

As I remember it, Loge, (the god of plans so cunning you could put a tail on them and .. etc), had convinced Wotan that it was a good idea, and that he could get Wotan out of any contract he agreed to - and he did, by telling Wotan about Alberich.

Of course this brings up another parallel: the Giants as builders.

You're right! I hadn't thought of that before. I must say that the Giants in TCoTC were slightly more ... umm ... nice than Fafner. Although thinking about it, Fafner only murders Fasolt after he gets hold of the ring (a corrupting power), which slightly reminds me of the Illearth stone's "mastery" of the Giants. But only slightly. Yeah, I'm pushing it a little.

I wonder if Linden is going to start inscribing Runes on the new staff at some point ...