Kevin's Watch

Esmer wrote: and speaking of performances, that big headed alien baby and the horrendous voiceover is an all-time unbeatable classic in so bad it becomes good tv kitsch.

Ah, yes - The Corbomite Manoeuvre. It's one of my favorite TOS episodes, but yeah, the kid at the end with the dubbed voice is just weird.

Fist and Faith wrote:And while I don't know if it's where the line originated, it's the first place I ever heard the line about revenge being a dish best served cold.

Same here.

What?? That wasn't the kid's real voice????? I thought it sounded like that because of all the tranya he drank.

Wow, is that like the Trek-geekiest joke ever? All of you in the know chuckling. Damn, is Shatner's bit at a convention on SNL the funniest thing in the world???

Hell, they attributed the Revenge line to "old Klingon proverb" at the beginning of Kill Bill. It has to have come from Wrath of Khan.

Fist and Faith wrote:What?? That wasn't the kid's real voice????? I thought it sounded like that because of all the tranya he drank.

Surely you didn't actually think that was young Clint Howard's voice. Drunk or not.
I watched Corbomite recently. The voice sync isn't too bad really.

danlo wrote:In a way I disagree with Menolly. While interesting plots were going on on old ST there weren't a whole lot of great acting jobs by guests. I know I'm missing some good ones but Frank Gorshin (the original Riddler), Montalban and Jim Hutton as Charlie X stand out, in my mind, as some of the best.

Some that stand out to me are:

Joan Collins . 'The City on the Edge of Forever'
William Windom - as Matt Decker in 'The Doomsday machine"


I also agree that Khan was the best ST villian ever. He made the perfect nemisis for Kirk. And you cant forget the last part of the line he used after quoting the Klingon proverb.

'Revenge is a dish best served cold. It is very cold in space"

I love it when he is talking to Chekov and Chekov saying something like "You lie. You lie. On Ceti Alpha V there was life....."

Khan breaks in yelling "THIS IS CETI ALPHA V! Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet, and everything was laid ....waste.

I remember getting goosebumps at that point. Khan was just the best ever evil dude for Star trek.

SoulBiter wrote:

danlo wrote:In a way I disagree with Menolly. While interesting plots were going on on old ST there weren't a whole lot of great acting jobs by guests. I know I'm missing some good ones but Frank Gorshin (the original Riddler), Montalban and Jim Hutton as Charlie X stand out, in my mind, as some of the best.

Some that stand out to me are:

Joan Collins . 'The City on the Edge of Forever'
William Windom - as Matt Decker in 'The Doomsday machine"

Agree with both, and I would add Mark Lenard as the Romulan Commander in "Balance of Terror."

Fist and Faith wrote:What?? That wasn't the kid's real voice????? I thought it sounded like that because of all the tranya he drank.

Wow, is that like the Trek-geekiest joke ever? All of you in the know chuckling. Damn, is Shatner's bit at a convention on SNL the funniest thing in the world???

Okay, I am clearly not an uber Trek Geek because I have no idea what tranya is...and I'm not going to try and cheat here by looking it up.

The Dreaming wrote:Hell, they attributed the Revenge line to "old Klingon proverb" at the beginning of Kill Bill. It has to have come from Wrath of Khan.

That was a nice tribute by Tarantino. One more reason why Kill Bill rocks.

SoulBiter: yes, Khan's explosive reply to Chekov is the first sign as to how much rage Khan has built up over the years. You know the guy means business.

It has been awhile since I have seen the movie, but if memory serves, many of Khan's best lines are riffs on lines from the novel Moby Dick? Which, of course, is also a work of obsession, rage, and revenge.

And yes, I also think Montalban was wonderful in the movie.

duchess of malfi wrote:It has been awhile since I have seen the movie, but if memory serves, many of Khan's best lines are riffs on lines from the novel Moby Dick? Which, of course, is also a work of obsession, rage, and revenge.

And yes, I also think Montalban was wonderful in the movie.

His last lines are *straight* from Moby Dick (undoubtedly intentional allusion on the part of the character) I don't think the revenge line is.

(I loved the callback to STII in First Contact, when Picard is compared to Ahab, he is also being compared to Khan )

Eat the dish of revenge cold instead of hot.
--Charles Lowe Prince Bismarck (1885)

--A

Ah, thank you, Avatar. But I still prefer Khan's version.

The original sounds a bit clumsy compared to the way Montalban phrases it. I think Montalban's version is more poetic, especially when he adds the line that in space it's very, very cold.

Oh look it Richardo Montalban and his plastic chest!!!


Yes he was a nasty villian..

Plastic chest?! You rave!

Watched Star Trek II again last weekend. (Must be the fortieth or fiftieth time by now)
I'm still quite stunned by just how good the film is. Sure it has a few flaws (can't help but giggle when Joachim, played by Judson Scott, supposedly dies with his eyes open, closes them when Khan hugs his lifeless form..hehehehehh). But the Wrath of Khan delivers so damn much, from the direction, story, acting and special effects that even after all of these years it's very hard to find other films that rise so high. And of course at the heart of it all is Montalban. His presence makes it all work. It helps that Shatner gives his most memorable performance as well. What can I say? It's all good.

SoulBiter wrote:

danlo wrote:In a way I disagree with Menolly. While interesting plots were going on on old ST there weren't a whole lot of great acting jobs by guests. I know I'm missing some good ones but Frank Gorshin (the original Riddler), Montalban and Jim Hutton as Charlie X stand out, in my mind, as some of the best.

Some that stand out to me are:

Joan Collins . 'The City on the Edge of Forever'
William Windom - as Matt Decker in 'The Doomsday machine"


I also agree that Khan was the best ST villian ever. He made the perfect nemisis for Kirk. And you cant forget the last part of the line he used after quoting the Klingon proverb.

'Revenge is a dish best served cold. It is very cold in space"

I love it when he is talking to Chekov and Chekov saying something like "You lie. You lie. On Ceti Alpha V there was life....."

Khan breaks in yelling "THIS IS CETI ALPHA V! Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet, and everything was laid ....waste.

I remember getting goosebumps at that point. Khan was just the best ever evil dude for Star trek.

Agreed here with Khan's monologue with Chekov and Captian Terrell. The whole scene, excellently played out by Montalban, his calm, reserved
"I don't know you" to Terrell then with Chekov the chilling "...but you.... I never forget a face... Mr.... Chekov, isn't it? I never thought to see your face again."
Knowing the back story to it all helps as Khan's wife was Chekov's girlfriend at the time the Botnay Bay was err, thawed out.

Then Khan's ignoring Chekov's assessment of him as if beneath his notice... When Terrell protests and tries to plead to Khan's people...

Then the explosion (as quoted above)... then immediate calm as to explain to small children ... Very nicely done.

Another great one was the first exchange between Khan and Kirk.
"Surely I've made my meaning plain Admiral, I've deprived your ship of power and when I swing around I mean to deprive you of your life... but I wanted you to know first who it was that had beaten you."
And that wonderfully restrained "...don't insult my intelligence Kirk..."

That Khan's character was quoting Moby Dick's Ahab throughout the film, (a glimpse of the book was seen in the cargo hold of the ship on Ceti Alpha V) definitely gives the edge or the tone of the entire film. Of course the lines were modified to fit the stardate.

"He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the moons of Nebia, and round the Antares Malestrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up! "

Whereas the original

"I'll follow him around the Horn, and around the Norway maelstrom, and around perdition's flames before I give him up."

You have to accredit the writers Gene Roddenberry (television series Star Trek) Harve Bennett (story) and Jack B. Sowards (story) and Samuel A. Peeples (story) uncredited Jack B. Sowards (screenplay) and Nicholas Meyer (screenplay) uncredited for coming up with the great lines as well as Montalban's performance.

The other villians in the original series were excellent. As mentioned Frank Gorshin as Bele and Lou Antonio as Lokai with their excellent portrayals which were a social commentary on the race problems this country was experiencing at the time (1961) "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".

Kang, Khor, and other Klingons, various Romulans then the others... Melkotians (Spectre of the Gun), Trelane (Squire of Gothos) basically a Q-wanna be OR actually an immature Q as his parents come take their naughty boy back home (I don't wanna, I don't wanna)... He was one of my favorites, cheesy I'll admit but definitely a fave. Lets not forget Apollo (Who Mourns For Adonis), The Providers (The Gamesters of Triskelion),
The Kelvins (By Any Other Name) ... where they transformed crew members into polyhedron shaped cubes and so many others... Whoo!

It's a very good story--I mean it could take place in any kind of era or tech level--but I agree that the performance of Montalban makes the film really good. Others have already pointed out that great introductory scene with Terrell and Chekov so I will just gladly agree that it's fantastic.

My favourite moment within that scene is the moment where Khan suddenly drops being coldy civil and roars, "THIS is Ceti Alpha Five!!!"

Hey, I just watched the OST episode Space Seed, which is the background for Wrath of Khan I discovered. And while I'm watching, and once I've figured out they actually mean this to be the same Kahn, (which of course puts me in mind of this thread), I'm thinking, "he doesn't look much like Khan..."

And then the credits roll, and lo and behold, it is actually a much younger Ricardo Montalban. He really improved with age.

--A

Well, one could say that "Admiral" Kirk in the Trek movies doesn't look much like Captain Kirk from the original show either.

And how about this Kirk/Khan reverse symmetry: Kirk had blonde hair on the TV series which became black in the feature films. Khan had black hair on the TV episode which became blonde in the movie.

Only hairdressers know if that has some cosmic meaning.

Well, the 20 years or so between episode and film did Montalban no harm in the looks department, that's for sure. (And he was a much better actor by then too, now that I come to think of it.)

--A

*covers grin*

Isn't that what I said back in 2005?

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