Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:05 am**

I seriously need to read Dan Millman's new book: The Journeys of Socrates

Posted: **Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:51 am**

Fun thread guys. Gotta say that my favourite answers so far are Syl's Zen quote, and Birdy's.

I'll add a nice quote myself: "If god is not everywhere, then he is nowhere."

--A

Posted: **Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:18 pm**

Menolly wrote:While I am a practicing Jew, my personal belief strays quite a bit from traditional Judaism.

The closest I have ever come to my personal belief was surprisingly found towards the end in the last book of a children's series about bats. The book is called Firewing, and I was flabbergastedd to find my belief in it's pages.

Mennoly--I was intrigued by this book, so I looked it up at Amazon. I have now added it (along with all Kenneth Oppel's other books) to the data base at IBDoF--you should go and rate and review it so others will be influenced to pick it up. I intend to read it ASAP.

Check it out: here .

P.S. You have to register, but that's no different or harder than registering here.

IBDoF is a good place for readers.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:06 am**

well i see God everywhere, and he even communicates with me. asked me to stop eating animals. i should say something about blindness here...

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:04 pm**

ChoChiyo wrote:I once read somewhere that WE are the hands of God. WE are to be doing what needs to be done for others...

Where I personally see and feel the presence of God is in

--the look of trust in a child's eyes.
--a kind deed or word given with no anticipation of profit or return from it.
--the blazing glory of sunset
--the pastel holiness of sunrise.
--the feeling of joy and warmth you feel inside yourself when you see a friend you dearly love.
--laughter--the kind that is joyous and not mocking
--good deeds done by strangers

None of these things ARE God, of course, but they are like the footprints of God visible for a moment or two in my life.

I don't know about the pain and suffering and cancers and bombs and stuff like that.

I think perhaps these are just things that have to happen because of choices made by people--not by God. I don't believe God is vindictive. And I don't believethat he/she/it takes any joy in human suffering. In fact, I believe our suffering causes God great pain.

I don't really believe in Hell anymore either.

Much to the horror of my family, whom I made the mistake of telling my new conviction to.

hehehe

Cho, you can't believe in God and not believe in Hell. By religious terms, if there is a God, there is a hell.

In fact, it rather annoys me when people say "I believe in God, but I don't believe in Hell". Because that's basically saying, "Oh, I think I'll just believe in the good parts of my religion and turn a blind eye to the bad parts".

You either believe or disbelief, being selective and choosing what parts and aspects you'll believe in is just... wrong.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:52 pm**

ummm...Darth, I really don't think you want to go around saying what someone believes is "wrong". Belief is not as absolute as "belief or disbelief".

And let's clear something else up. Belief in God does NOT necessarily coincide with belief in "religion". Religion is a man-made entity designed to control and yes "teach" people USING God. Some religions are beautiful and some are down right dark and full of terror. And people can follow a "religion" and not believe in God at all.

Cho is finding her way into her belief, and if hell is something she choses not to believe in, so be it. It is not for you to tell her she is wrong. Just like it is not for me to tell you that your nonbelief is wrong. That is something I never do. Faith and belief are personal, deeply personal.

You asked...Where is God? People are expresses their belief on where God is. Are you listening?

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:57 pm**

Furls Fire wrote:ummm...Darth, I really don't think you want to go around saying what someone believes is "wrong". Belief is not as absolute as "belief or disbelief".

And let's clear something else up. Belief in God does NOT necessarily coincide with belief in "religion". Religion is a man-made entity designed to control and yes "teach" people USING God.

All source of God and religion is a man-made entity Furls. Man wrote the bible, not God. So all of God is man-made if you follow the logic that all of religion is man-made. If not for certain men, you would have no idea to believe in God.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:01 pm**

Darth Revan wrote:Cho, you can't believe in God and not believe in Hell. By religious terms, if there is a God, there is a hell.

In fact, it rather annoys me when people say "I believe in God, but I don't believe in Hell". Because that's basically saying, "Oh, I think I'll just believe in the good parts of my religion and turn a blind eye to the bad parts".

You either believe or disbelief, being selective and choosing what parts and aspects you'll believe in is just... wrong.

FF did a pretty good job of taking this apart, but I can't leave this alone...

"By religious terms..." WTF? There religious people and religions the world over who have managed to find their gods without creating a hell for him to rule over.

What is "just... wrong" is you trying to determine whose beliefs are "right".

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:02 pm**

Plissken wrote:
Darth Revan wrote:Cho, you can't believe in God and not believe in Hell. By religious terms, if there is a God, there is a hell.

In fact, it rather annoys me when people say "I believe in God, but I don't believe in Hell". Because that's basically saying, "Oh, I think I'll just believe in the good parts of my religion and turn a blind eye to the bad parts".

You either believe or disbelief, being selective and choosing what parts and aspects you'll believe in is just... wrong.
FF did a pretty good job of taking this apart, but I can't leave this alone...

"By religious terms..." WTF? There religious people and religions the world over who have managed to find their gods without creating a hell for him to rule over.

What is "just... wrong" is you trying to determine whose beliefs are "right".

Good post.

Though crudly put.

I personally think Religion is man's answer to their fear of death.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:05 pm**

I tend to agree. We're constantly telling each other stories, in the hopes that we'll find one that explains everything...

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:11 pm**

Darth Revan wrote:All source of God and religion is a man-made entity Furls.

That is your belief, as you stated in your opening post.
But you also stated that you wanted to hear the thoughts of those who believe in God. If that is true, then countering with your above statement defeats the purpose of the discussion.

I personally share your beliefs, Darth....sometimes.... (as I have said before: my faith wavers. Sometimes I think I can see why people believe in God, other times I cannot.)...but sometimes I think that whether there is a God or not doesn't matter....the belief is enough.

It is that belief which ultimately causes people to live in the ways of God and love. Even without having ever provably seen God. As I say...the belief is enough.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:33 pm**

ur-bane wrote:
Darth Revan wrote:All source of God and religion is a man-made entity Furls.
That is your belief, as you stated in your opening post.

It's not my belief though! It's fact. Unless you deny that Men wrote the bible, you cannot tell me I'm wrong or question me. Because that man wrote the bible is pure fact. So therefore all information of God and religion is based on what many men have written. <<< I'm not objecting to anyones beliefs by saying that. It's a simple fact.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:42 pm**

Darth,

To a quite sizable portion of the human population, the fact is to them that God exists.

Unless you deny that Men wrote the bible, you cannot tell me I'm wrong or question me.

Well, of course. No one denies this. But Christians, for example, believe God inspired the writing of the Bible. It is therefore divine.

I'm not objecting to anyones beliefs by saying that. It's a simple fact.

If you don't want to object to anyone's beliefs, then try and state them in a more sensitive manner, instead of saying that it is a fact that what someone believes is blatantly untrue.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:55 pm**

Well see, Darth...what you call "simple fact" I do not. For I see it differently. God created man, and man wrote the Bible under the guidance of God. It is man's intrepretations of God's Word that has created religion. Before all, was God...that is my belief, I do not call it "simple fact" because many don't believe as I do. I just know what it is my heart. And in my heart are God and Jesus, and They always will be. I don't need a book, or a preacher, or church to tell me where They are.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:05 pm**

Furls Fire wrote:Well see, Darth...what you call "simple fact" I do not. For I see it differently. God created man, and man wrote the Bible under the guidance of God. It is man's intrepretations of God's Word that has created religion. Before all, was God...that is my belief, I do not call it "simple fact" because many don't believe as I do. I just know what it is my heart. And in my heart are God and Jesus, and They always will be. I don't need a book, or a preacher, or church to tell me where They are.

*sigh* Very well. i accept your belief. But I won't lie, I don't understand it, how really religious people can choose to distort facts is bizarre.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:42 pm**

Personally, my opinion on the Bible can be bluntly summed up by a scene in an early episode of Red Dwarf, in which there is a news report stating that the missing first page of the Bible has been discovered. You know, that "any resemblance is purely coincidental" page.

But I don't seek to dismiss other people's beliefs, just because I think they're nonesense

I could argue that I'm always right about everything, and therefore my beliefs are the correct ones, but that tends to annoy people

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:16 pm**

Technically, Darth is right.
Mankind *physically* wrote the bible.
That is a fact.
Where the inspiration came from for them to form the words is open to anyone's beliefs.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:07 pm**

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Technically, Darth is right.
Mankind *physically* wrote the bible.
That is a fact.

He re-wrote it a few times since then, as well.
Not sure how this fits in with a divine source of inspiration.

I suppose we must credit the edits were divinely inspired as well.
Else we are left to ponder what we may have lost.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:27 pm**

Wayfriend wrote:I suppose we must credit the edits were divinely inspired as well.
Else we are left to ponder what we may have lost.

This is a recurring conversation I have with friends and co-workers. If you believe that the Bible is the Divine Word of God, then the various edits and translations are also divinely inspired. People (understandably) have a hard time with this.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:35 pm**

Wayfriend, Cail,

Yes, that is actually one issue I have with Christianity, regarding Confirmation.