Kevin's Watch

Matrixman wrote:With TIW there was still the feeling of hope and beauty in the Land, but by the time of TPTP it seemed like there was only death and darkness in the Land.

I agree. The transition from hard but with hope to completely despairing and hopeless is one of the most effective things about TIW. Add the development of all the characters, unforeseen consequences, revelations, trials, impotence and power, loss, horror, and Hile Troy...it's a masterpiece.

And I think we all expected Mhoram to be High Lord, and I'm sure that was deliberate on SRD's part

Those readers unsympathetic towards Elena might say she was the "unnatural" element that sabotaged the natural succession from Prothall to Mhoram.

Matrixman wrote:Those readers unsympathetic towards Elena might say she was the "unnatural" element that sabotaged the natural succession from Prothall to Mhoram.

I also thought Mhoram should have been High Lord, but mabye Elena's relation to TC gave her an advantage?

Undoubtedly. As the daughter of the Unbeliever, I'm sure all the other Lords would be convinced she was destined for great things.

Less 'unatural' to the Land as Covenant was, but their hopes in him have certainly been transmitted to her by other's wants.
She may have been what they expected of him. With the consequences we know.

What others may call madness, I think she had the guts that was demanded of her... which she gave aplenty.

Mhoram was yet unprepared at this time, still had lessons to learn, which he received from her and Trell, indirectly.

I had post-partum melancoly for months after reading her death
(well ok, Im hexageratin' )

I tend to agree with many here - my top 2 are TIW and Wounded Land, in that order. When I first read 'em all, many years ago, I remember hating The One Tree cos it wasn't in the land but it has grown on me over time and now I love it.

Illearth War for me because it describes the Land at it's Healthiest in all of the books, after some of the Second Ward was implemented and before Foul started really buggering everything up. Also had the most Lords, I loved Revelwood, and the Tragedy / beauty of Elena, and the dilemma of the Bloodguard, the riddles of Amok...everything!

(UR-MONKEY, COME TO THE UK MEET-UP!)

Can I come? :O

Of course - all are welcome. I'm trying to coax as many as possible to join us this time.

Details in the General SRD forum, in the "Elohimschristmasesh" topic. Better still, here's a link: LINK

I liked TIW as much as anyone else, but I Didn't like Troy.
I liked his place in the book, but I just didn't like him-he was harder on Cov, than Cov was on himself.

It was lke, he treated Covenant like he was used to, shunned and dissliked--being from the real world, I guess that explains it, even two years in the Land didn't soften how he felt towards lepers.

I agree I really detested Troy. It probably didnt help that this was when I first started feeling sympathy for TC.

Aah, Troy wasn't that bad...another fragile, damaged vessel, trying desperately to be worthy of the expectations of the Land, and in his own mind, failing.

His unique position, and what he'd recieved from the Land, made him unable to understand Covenants reticence.

--A

I understand on the one hand Troy's point of view but on the other he is one of these really irritating people who think they are always right and he is convinced he can save the land. he just seems so smug and self righteous, probably why he likes Elena so much

Yes, I disliked Troy as a person, but I liked (or appreciated) him as a character.

I'm with you CJ.
I just thaught of how mean he was to Cov most of the time was unjustified..remember how jerky he acted when the Lords were trying to save Dukka--it was one thing that wasn't Cov's fault-yet Troy blamed him.


Although he mellowed out, and I'd say redeemed himself as a forestal.

Oh he definitely redeemed himself as a Forestal.

I've made my own feelings about Troy clear in the Hile Troy thread. Feel free to hop in there to add your views!

ur-monkey wrote:Illearth War for me because it describes the Land at it's Healthiest in all of the books, after some of the Second Ward was implemented and before Foul started really buggering everything up. Also had the most Lords, I loved Revelwood, and the Tragedy / beauty of Elena, and the dilemma of the Bloodguard, the riddles of Amok...everything!

Having so many new Lords was definitely one of the exciting elements of TIW. They had their own distinct personalities, and they had their own compelling storylines, both heroic and tragic. How could the story of Lords Shetra and Verement not move anyone? They fought for the Land and for each other, yet such bitter fates were in store for them. And the story of Lord Hyrim's doomed mission to Seareach was as dark as anything else in TIW. Every time I read those pages I'm mentally shouting at Korik: Nooo--don't touch the Stone, you fool! Listen to Hyrim! Again the theme of betrayal rears its ugly head in TIW, as the Bloodguard are blinded by their own sense of incorruptibility.

The Illearth War is the most resplendent of the books, and very possibly the best of all. The only one to give it a run for it's money, in my opinion, is The Power That Preserves, but that's mainly because, after painting such a poignant picture of sorow and despair, it delivers such a fantastic payoff. (It's a pity The White Gold Wielder couldn't receiprocate in this respect - I was expecting so much). As a stand alone book, for sheer scope, beauty and anticipation, not to mention sense of meaning, I reckon The Illearth War beats anything else I've read, and it has probably the best fantasy battle ever described.

Landroval wrote:... it delivers such a fantastic payoff. (It's a pity The White Gold Wielder couldn't receiprocate in this respect - I was expecting so much).

Eh? Which White Gold Weilder did you read?

I know it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion whatsoever, but I always think it is called White Gold WELDER. Just can't get that out of my head lol