Kevin's Watch

Exactly. And the documentary talks about New American Century doesn't it? There's just no convincing argument here.

That's what alot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists point to. PNAC sounds awfully suspicious considering who is on its board and their motives.

Loremaster wrote:As to Operation Northwoods - it's one thing to engage minor activities to begin a war another to ram two planes into buildings.

Do you really think that there's much of a difference LoreMaster? Lord Mhoram? Do you give the government that much credit for compassion?

Those people were matyrs damnit. They made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. Just because they didn't know they were, or that it was, or why it was, necessary doesn't mean that their country doesn't value their sacrifice. Dying to instigate the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq has probably saved millions from Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. The needs of the many...

(Did I ever mention I was a cynic? )

--A

Avatar wrote:

Loremaster wrote:As to Operation Northwoods - it's one thing to engage minor activities to begin a war another to ram two planes into buildings.

Do you really think that there's much of a difference LoreMaster? Lord Mhoram? Do you give the government that much credit for compassion?

Actually, I do indeed give the government compassion. Not entirely innocent, mind you.

But why is it so hard to accept that some Islamic extremists would orchestrate and carry out the events? It seems the most complex schemes must be invented for people to vent their anger at governments or people. I just find it strange that despite all the evidence there are those who accept minute details or disparate clues and create some complex story/conspiracy, then pat themselves on the back for being smart and feeling 'all knowing' over the rest of the gullible herd.

What about the forth plane?

You now the one where all the people on board took out the terrorists, and forced it to crash into the ground, rather then into a building (I think it was headed for the white house?)
Such a powerfull sotry, even Neil Young wrote a song about it.

When the report came in that the forth plane was "No longer a threat" The first thing I figured (as I'm sure many other did) was that the Air Force shot it down.
But wouldn't it sound a whole heck of a lot better if some hero's took out the terrorists then the USAF shooting down a plane of american civilians?
An easy cover-up story the pulls on the heartstrings.
I know there was the woman who was speaking to her husband just before it happened, but that could be a load of crap too.

Not hard at all. And yes, perhaps the conspiracy is an overly complicated sort of thing.

In general, I'm not actually suggesting that it's true. But if it was proved to be, I wouldn't be much surprised.

--A

Avatar wrote:Not hard at all. And yes, perhaps the conspiracy is an overly complicated sort of thing.

In general, I'm not actually suggesting that it's true. But if it was proved to be, I wouldn't be much surprised.

--A

Sure. I had assumed so, given the nature of your other posts.

But why is it so hard to accept that some Islamic extremists would orchestrate and carry out the events? It seems the most complex schemes must be invented for people to vent their anger at governments or people. I just find it strange that despite all the evidence there are those who accept minute details or disparate clues and create some complex story/conspiracy, then pat themselves on the back for being smart and feeling 'all knowing' over the rest of the gullible herd

As Av said, I think a group of terrorists organized it and pulled it off. However, I wouldn't be at all suprised if:

subordinate: "Mr. Cheney, you need to see this. (shows him massive amount of info concerning terrorists, flight schools, Al-Qaeda, money trails, and WTC photos)

Mr. Cheney: " Interesting, let just sit on this for awhile and see what happens."

Call it a case of malign neglect, or a purpose driven inaction.

i find it more likely that no one connected the terrorists and flight schools because planes being flown into buildings had never happened. and from the Iraq disaster, it seems our intel can not come up with scenerios that do not favor the admin.

Kinslaughterer wrote:Call it a case of malign neglect

Likely, but doubt that Bush had to sign the forms to start action; the agencies should have done something.

Interestingly enough Sgt, a 10-ton B-25 Bomber crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building in 1945, killing 14 and injuring 26, but not affecting the structural integrity of the building. It was an accident that time of course though.

It's easy to say they should have done something before, but before it would all have been speculation. If they'd been wrong, they would have been in trouble.

--A

Avatar wrote: It's easy to say they should have done something before, but before it would all have been speculation. If they'd been wrong, they would have been in trouble.

--A

And what the conspiracy theorists never factor into account is that the extremists are remarkably good at what they do. They never act like Muslims in other countries; they live, dress and act like westerners, so that no one is ever suspicious. It's not as if you can spot an extremist, and as it is, no one even questioned the suicide pilots whilst they were learning how to fly.

because no one picked up on the pattern. something many of us assumed the intel agencies were set up to do.

Av: someone also hit or came close to hitting the White House with small plane.

Av,

The planes crashed into the WTC intentionally. A big difference.

Lord Mhoram wrote:Av,

The planes crashed into the WTC intentionally. A big difference.

And the terrorists rotated the planes slightly so that the wings/fuel stores would cover more floors.

This conspiracy theory is really catching on around here due to a DVD that is being circulated. I haven't wathced it, but my brother has (it convinced him 100%). He told me the details, and after 10 minutes with Google, I provided evidence that debunked every single instance of "proof" he could give me.

This conspiracy theory makes no sense. Presidents can send troops wherever they want. Clinton invaded Haiti, Kosovo, Bosnia. He bombed Iraq and aspirin factories in Africa. He didn't need to bomb America in order to get support for all those military actions.

And if people are gullible enough to believe that the government could pull off something this extreme, this complicated, and this evil, then why the hell didn't they just plant some WMDs in Iraq? Wouldn't that have been a lot easier? Are you telling me that a few spies couldn't have smuggled in a case of biological weapons, a tactical nuke, or SOMETHING that would have justified going to war without killing 1000s of Americans? And if not before the war, then for God's sake why not AFTER the war had begun? We control large parts of Iraq now. Why for Pete's sake didn't we fake some WMDs to at least sustain the public support?!? Are you conspiracy believers actually saying that Bush/Cheney are smart enough and evil enough to have caused 9/11, but faking some weapons evidence in Iraq is going TOO FAR? It's not even too late to do it now! All of their political problems would go away if they'd "find" just ONE weapon of mass destruction.

Come on, people. This conspiracy makes absolutely no sense. It can be debunked with 10 minutes of research. Only the worse kind of partisan fool would believe this crap. I mean it. You are STUPID if you let yourself believe something this ridiculous.

It is disgraceful how some people want to relieve the responsibility of the terrorists--placing that responsibility on our government--for these heinous acts. Just listen to some of those horrible recordings that are being released right now, recordings of people right before they died in the towers. And then really think about what you're doing: letting the terrorists off the hook and blaming the guy in the White House just because you don't like him. This is going beyond speculative entertainment. It is offensive beyond measure.

Good post, Malik23. I take you alse despise Michael Moore?

www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

for video

www.911blogger.com/2006/02/dr-steven-jo ... video.html

Kin: none of the pics will show for me. and i don't have an engineering degree. is what this guy is saying possible? it sounds convincing.

Very interesting.

Still, there is one of Maliks points that I definitely agree with. And that is "why bother?" It seems an unnecessarily complicated thing to do to justify an invasion.

But I'm still a cynic.

--A