Kevin's Watch

Thanks everyone for your reading this and your comments. A few answers

1. The Haruchai are speaking mentally. I guess I have to work on my presentation.

2. It is actually Hoerkin, not hergrom. I edited the original post to correct this, along with Doar's name. Hoerkin was the warhaft of the tenth eoward that Korik and the mission found frozen in sarangrave, dead yet alive. This was the eoward I was speaking of, dont know how this slipped out. I will fix this. Hamako was the stonedowner from During stonedown which was destroyed; he lived among the waynhim (sp?) and helped Covenat gain revelstone when Linded had been captured.

3. I will submit an original piece to the KW Anthology II, hopefully I can finish it in time.

4. How do I submit this to the Hall of Gifts? Should I wat until it is finished?

danlo wrote:I'll have to wait till I get home on Fri. to read this, but just thought I'd once again expound my theory on what happened to WavenHair? I've always assumed that she eventually turns into the Lurker.

Spoiler

again Runes is fairly specific that when the great ill came upon the Land it originated in the heart of the Sarangrave...

Wasnt the Lurker there before the triplets were taken by the Ravers?
The few that fled The Greive seemed to have been killed by the Lurker. If the Lurker was then their mother, the transformation from Gaint to Tentecled monster would have to be very quick.

I think so, but need to research it; There definately wasn't much time for WavenHair to make such a physical change; Wavenhair had the triplets before Covenant showed up, but within a year. Saltheart was on his way to Revelstone to tell them and to ask for the gildenload rudders.

The loss of the triplets occurred near the end of the 40 year absence of Covenant; probably about 3 years prior. This was the last time the Giants were heard from; Therefore Wavenhair would have had to go into the swamp and meet some doom that changed her within that short time frame. I dont think this is the case; I seem to recall something about the lurker forming from the vileness coming out of Mt Thunder, the foul wash of the wight warrens. Foul created the Ur-VIles and stuff there, the Jherrin were also created and escaped; I think the lurker formed from this waste, gre and gained some level of consciuosness. Pr perhaps Waven hair was absorbed....

which gives me an idea ....

Actually, Wavenhair died in Coercri and the ill lurker of the sarangrave was known. I did some research. When Hyrim, Korik and the rest of the mission arrive at Coercri, they found Sparlimb Keelsetter barely alive. Hyrim asked of the one who had come and done this. He spoke to them of the loss of the three brothers, and of the search:

"This Spring -- this -- we knew at last that the old slumbering ill of the Sarangrave was awake. We thought to send word to brave Lord's Keep--" Then we lost the brothers. Lost them. We arose to one sunrise, and they were gone. "

"Then the last searcher returned-- Wavenhair Haleall whose womb bore the three. Because she was the mother, she searched when all others had given up the search, and she was the last to return. SHe had journeyed to the Shattered Hills themselves. Shw called all of the people together, and told us the fate of the three before she died. The wounds of the earch--"

He groaned again. "Now I am the last. Ah, my people!"

the question is, what did she see? obvioulsy she saw the three had been possessed. Drool must have found the Illearth Stone, and fould either took or persuaded him to take three fragments and give them to the Giants, then the ravers took them. I deduce more, but I wont reveal it now.... I can use this

I always assumed the Ravers were given the stones, then they were able to posses them.

iquestor wrote:1. The Haruchai are speaking mentally. I guess I have to work on my presentation.

Not that big a deal, was just curious as I thought there might be a story-related reason as to why they were speaking out loud. My bad. Gilden Fire shows how SRD differentiated Haruchai mind communication from normal speech - I can post an example if you don't have access.

iquestor wrote:2. It is actually Hoerkin, not hergrom. I edited the original post to correct this, along with Doar's name. Hoerkin was the warhaft of the tenth eoward that Korik and the mission found frozen in sarangrave, dead yet alive. This was the eoward I was speaking of, dont know how this slipped out. I will fix this. Hamako was the stonedowner from During stonedown which was destroyed; he lived among the waynhim (sp?) and helped Covenat gain revelstone when Linded had been captured.

Of course he was! *shakes head* Must have been having a bad day.

iquestor wrote:3. I will submit an original piece to the KW Anthology II, hopefully I can finish it in time.

Good, I'll look forward to reading it. Remember to contact the Sekection Team if you need an extension at all.

iquestor wrote:4. How do I submit this to the Hall of Gifts? Should I wat until it is finished?

We just ask danlo to move it through.

danlo? Can you move this thread and amanihavam's story to the Hall of Gifts? Cheers.

Like I said iquestor, a classy work and no mistake. Can't wait for the next instalment.

Oh okay--I admit I was a bit confused in my post here--elsewhere I have said that I believe the (human) mother of the three brothers who originally became ravers (not Giants) became the Lurker--not the mother of the very uncommon Giant triplets possessed of ravers--very sorry. I blame my parents tiny screen and the AOL every 10 minutes logout! (forgive me!)

This thread should be moved--I don't like to shadow but in this case I probably will, for at least a month

Hey Danlo!

thanks for moving this -- but will anyone see it now? I usually go to the main KW page, where it lists the top TC discussions. I am worried no one looks at the Hall of Gifts -- how does this work?

Pft - anyone worth their weight in cheese looks in the Hall of Gifts, so don't panic too much iquestor. Besides, your work is good, so the peeps'll find it.

If you still don't trust me, pop in there and take a look at the Stephen C. thread. It should explain why many of us have a soft spot for the Hall of Gifts.

iquestor's concern is understandable. Honestly, I haven't been to the Hall of Gifts in a while myself. The only reason I clicked on this thread (and I'm glad I did) was because it was in the TC forum. I always check out stuff in there.

But don't worry, iquestor. In your case, the quality of your fanfic is definitely being noticed by the rest of us.

I can create a thread in Summonsing where people can post updates for stuff in here, if you think it'll be used.

Hey, I trust you guys whatever you want to do is fine!

I'll keep an eye on things, but let me know if you think people aren't finding it.

You should find though that most members will check in here to make sure nothing new has been posted, and you can always let us know in General Discussion when you add another chapter.

This is not a comment on iquestor's story, but on the premise behind it.

I always thought that the story of the three Bloodguard marching to Foul's Creche to take out Foul was incongruous with the rest of what we know about the Haruchai.

First of all, the Haruchai are disdainful of weapons and lore. They would not have viewed having the Illearthstone as an opportunity, because they would not consider it as having an advantage, because they would not consider using it.

Second, the Haruchai are rather resistent to these sorts of things. They are resistant to the Sunbane, to Kasreyn's geas, and other things. They are probably, like Giant's, immune to possession by Ravers. So it doesn't fit that they would be altered by the presence of the Illearth Stone.

There is every evidence that, without a lore-wise person to weild it, the Illearth stone is rather inert. It may radiate subtle waves of malice, but it woudn't do anything specific that the Bloodguard couldn't handle.

So I cannot see Korik, Doar, and Sill choosing of their own to march off to Foul's Creche, and I cannot see the Stone by itself changing them enough to have them do it. The only thing that would explain it, in my mind, is if they encountered a Raver or other Agent of Foul who used the Illearth Stone to master the bloodguard. But the story is that they were not mastered until the got to Foul's creche.

As I said, it seems incogruous. If anyone can explain how to make it fit, I'd like to hear about it.

Wayfriend, I disagree.

I do agree that the haruchai disdain weapons and lore; there is much evidence to support this. I also agree they didn't view it as an opportunity when Korik picked it up; Korik intended to take it to Revelstone. But something changed, and Korik did in fact challenge Foul.

So why would Korik challenge Foul? What changed? I think the stone had the power to affect the Haruchai over time because their Vow was an expression of Earthpower, and the Stone reacted to it . Korik would have immediately sensed this, because the Vow was his life. After all, (As Hyrim pointed out) their Vow was a potent enough expression of Earthpower to draw the Lurker of the Sarangrave to the mission. Earthpower beings themselves, the Ranyhyn were likewise affected. A Lord or commoner might have safely transported the fragment to Revelstone, but there were none left but Bloodguard at the Grieve. Because of the effect of the Stone on their Vow, the Haruchai were uniquely suited for this trap, and I think Foul knew it; this sounds exactly like his methods.

Hyrim must have known this; his last words were to warn Korik to neither touch nor take the stone. Why would he do this if they were immune or resistant enough to do something with constructive with it? He was warning them because he knew they would be harmed or corrupted in the process; he was the one to figure out that their Vow was drawing the Lurker when they were in the Swamp. If this wasn't the case, then he would have asked them to carry it to the Lords in the Warward, or on to Revelstone. but Lord Hyrim knew better. Therefore he warned them with his last breathe.

It was Korik's choice to take the fragment to Revelstone. He picked the stone up, and was soon after affected by the stones reaction to his Vow. He knew it was only a matter of time, and he made the decision to challenge the despiser versus risking losing the fragment to a foe before he could get it to revelstone, or allowing the stone to corrupt him, which would also be unthinkable.

Here is my logic:

1. It is called the Illearth stone for a reason. The illearth stone corrupts the natural order of the Land (the earth in the story); there is much evidence of this. it was used to corrupt creatures. It was going to be used to corrupt the natural cycle of the ocean, when Kinslaughterer was killed. (Yes, I know in these cases it was wielded.)

2. Earthpower is a component of the natural order of the Land, in fact enforces it.

3. The Vow taken by the Haruchai was sealed by Earthpower.

4. The Vow could have 'triggered' the ill effects of the stone. Or the Vow and the Stone reacted against each other.

5. Therefore the illearth stone could affect them through their Vow, as well as physically.

This is the crux of my story. From my point of view, Korik didn't really have a choice in the matter if you think about it: He could not have left the fragment where it was dropped by the Raver, because the next intelligent thing to come across it would be corrupted by it or use it for evil; there would be one more piece of the illearth stone left unaccounted for, which is unthinkable. Therefore, this was not a choice. Neither was hiding it for a later retrieval.

In my story, Korik knew / could feel that the stone was affecting him, and did not trust his ability to withstand it all the way back to Revelstone. Why? It would have taken too long, and time was a factor. He would have had to run all the way to revelstone. I do not think the Ranyhyn would have borne any rider who possessed such an abomination; being creatures of Earthpower, I don't think they could physically have done it if they had wanted to. This would have severely limited them and posed more of a risk of losing the fragment to a foe. Surely the stone would have drawn all sorts of creatures to them as they travelled.

So there is Korik, far away from both Revelstone and the Warward, and he has a fragment of the worst weapon Despite has against the Land. Time is limited. Knowing it could affect him and his party, knowing the danger it poses to the Land if he loses it to a foe or if it corrupts him along the way, what else can he do?

In this situation, I think it makes sense that if he can't re-enter the land with the fragment, and he can't leave or hide the fragment, the next logical thing is to confront Foul and deliver their best blow to despite. This is in keeping with their Vow to serve the Lords.

Did Korik (and party) think he could defeat Foul? I do not think they did. I think they wanted to try because it was all they had left to do. I certainly do not think they realized that there was something worse than death that could happen to them, as Lord Mhoram saw when he related that

I saw bloodguard marching in the service of the Despiser.

Second, the Haruchai are rather resistent to these sorts of things. They are resistant to the Sunbane, to Kasreyn's geas, and other things. They are probably, like Giant's, immune to possession by Ravers. So it doesn't fit that they would be altered by the presence of the Illearth Stone.

The Haruchai were only resistant to the mutating power of the first touch of the Sunbane. They were not, however, immune to the coercion of the Clave, or the call of the merewives. The Clave's power was derived from the Sunbane, a perverted form of Earthpower. Similarly, the merewives were beings of Earthpower, having been born from the union of Kastenessan and his human lover. Perhaps the Haruchai are extremely sensitive to such manifestations of Earthpower? Is it possible that the Illearth Stone's power is in some way either diverted or perverted Earthpower as well? If so, could that explain why Korik, Sill and Doar were led to Foul's Creche?

My point exactly - the Vow is Earthpower, and the Illearth Stone fragment reacted or was able to pervert it.

dlbpharmd wrote:The Haruchai were only resistant to the mutating power of the first touch of the Sunbane. They were not, however, immune to the coercion of the Clave, or the call of the merewives. ... Perhaps the Haruchai are extremely sensitive to such manifestations of Earthpower?

Okay, okay, they are not immune to everything. The touch of the Sunbane does not affect them, but the Clave's coercion does. But the Clave's coercion was designed by a Raver knowledgeable of Haruchai - it was designed to defeat the Haruchai. As for the merewives, I think that they hit a chink in their armor ... desire ... besides, the story needs the merewives and the Clave's hold to be similar so that the Quest learns how to break the Clave's hold.

We still must grant that the Haruchai have a foirtitude that makes them immune to many things. Donaldson calls this their "transcendant nature" in the GI.

iquestor wrote: I think the stone had the power to affect the Haruchai over time because their Vow was an expression of Earthpower, and the Stone reacted to it .

Okay, I see the argument, although I don't buy it.

The Sunbane was, by the authors words, "an attack on the natural order"; in your words, the Illearth Stone "corrupts the natural order of the Land" - sounds like the same class of problem to me. The Haruchai, lacking any other specific data to the contrary, should have been immune.

Yes, the Lurker sensed the Haruchai's Earthpower, but the Illearth Stone is inert by itself. It is not a being with an agenda, as the Lurker is. The Lurker seeks power to consume it. That's what it does, that's what it was made to do. The Illearth Stone is not like this.

Yes, the Illearth Stone is used to warp things, but that's the use it is put by the one who weilds it. The Stone is a "means of articulation", it can be used for certain things and not other things, but ultimately the choice lies with the weilder. In TWL, it was used by the Woodhelvenen to shape the Sunbane.

Okay, I see the argument, although I don't buy it.

Then why would Lord Hyrim beseech them to neither touch nor take the stone with his dying breath??? Lord Hyrim also knew Haruchai. If he thought they could bear the fragment safely, he would have been all over them taking it to Revelstone.

iquestor wrote:Then why would Lord Hyrim beseech them to neither touch nor take the stone with his dying breath???

That's just the drama, the lead-in for what follows. No, don't do it! Does it. Oh no!