Kevin's Watch

Calais wrote:As a result, Amplarx claims she needs to make no negotiations at all because he thinks she owns it outright.

I claim no such thing, do not twist my words.

I have stated repeatedly that O-gon-cho need not "negotiate" for the land because she intends to share Imray, while uKulwa intends to control it all.

Calais wrote:This seems a rather ominous prediction, Anaya. Perhaps more of the Sunrise Court will be involved in this conflict than previously thought. The Sunrise Court is banding together to intimidate and bully unaligned gods.

Weren't you listening? The sunrise court has no stance on the matter. I speak for myself, as does Anaya. You have a talent for deliberate misinterpretation which could land you in hot water.

Yet these demands, Bel, are being made by a goddess of your own court.

Her demands are no less than her adversary's yet according to members of your own court, she has absolute right and needs to make no negotiations - a completely inequitable situation.

Where is your response to hers? It is not the same and you have backed her play even though it will eventually mean war.

I claim no such thing, do not twist my words.

I do not twist your words. You stated that she does not need to negotiate because the lands are hers by historical claim.

You wrote:

Already covered. She has a historic claim to the land.

I have stated repeatedly that O-gon-cho need not "negotiate" for the land because she intends to share Imray, while uKulwa intends to control it all.

I disagree. She wants two of three cities that uKulwa's followers also live in. I sincerely doubt that she will 'share' those cities with uKulwa's warlike fellows. As a result, her demands are just as comprehensive as his, for it will become a necessity for her to evict them for the safety of her centaurs, if nothing else.

Weren't you listening? The sunrise court has no stance on the matter. I speak for myself, as does Anaya.

I listen to common sense, Amplarx. So far, I have heard none from you.

You have a talent for deliberate misinterpretation which could land you in hot water.

Is that a threat? A challenge? Or a warning? Either way, it is looking more and more to me that some of the members of the Pantheon cannot debate without a gauntlet being thrown.

Do not mistake me, Amplarx. I respect you being the friend of my grandfather but I am not a weak, stupid goddess that you can make idle threats to.

Calais wrote:Yet these demands, Bel, are being made by a goddess of your own court.

Her demands are no less than her adversary's yet according to members of your own court, she has absolute right and needs to make no negotiations - a completely inequitable situation.

Where is your response to hers? It is not the same and you have backed her play even though it will eventually mean war.

She has asked nothing more than that her people be allowed to remain where they already are. It is uKulwa who issued demands as though he has the authority to evict them. She has asked that things remain as they are--he has asked that they change. Their desires are entirely different in nature.
uKulwa offers war if his demands are not met--is this not the intimidation of which you have attempted to accuse our Court? You ignore his threatening attitude and instead accuse those who point out those threats. I do not know why you fail to grasp the contradiction in this.

Amplarx wrote:....
You [Calais] have a talent for deliberate misinterpretation which could land you in hot water.

Threats are unseemly brother of Vengeance.

uKulwa wrote:Let the worth of our respective claims be tested for merit in the furnace of contest.

May I suggest to all that our brother of War has the right of it. He has set his vision as has O-gon-cho. He has offered a path to prevent conflict of their followers in achieving that vision. O-gon-cho has refused. The contest of their followers will tell whose vision is stronger.

I speak for myself and not for Court Sunset. I suggest to my brothers and sisters of the Pantheon that we accept the coming mortal contest and watch as the world Turns to see whose claim proves superior.

Such contest can prove nothing, Lord of Life. Conflict is the recourse of the weak to exert their will upon their fellows and so fool themselves that they are strong. Nothing will be solved in such a manner.

Bel wrote:Such contest can prove nothing, Lord of Life. Conflict is the recourse of the weak to exert their will upon their fellows and so fool themselves that they are strong. Nothing will be solved in such a manner.

Peace brother ... I revere all life. But in all the turns of existence, I have never seen life without conflict.

The stray lightening strike that hits and burns a part of a forest [*bows* apologies brother Zephyr] is needed for healthy growth and greater Life. Much the same with conflicts between mortals. I grieve at the loss of life such conflict causes. But I understand the greater purpose.

Brethren...enough.
Deva has the right of it, Bel, in saying the coming contest will determine the outcome.

I made the mistake of taking a private discourse, and bringing it to the attention of all. I had hoped my innate nature for avoiding conflict had changed over the course of the Interdiction. While I no longer intend to avoid conflict at all cost, I still find such bickering...distasteful.

uKulwa and I will vie honorably for the lands we desire, although uKulwa himself told me all is fair in War. We will each seek counsel and help from those who will give it. I appreciate the verbal defense of those who support my point of view, as I am sure uKulwa appreciates the stated support of those who see his.

But...let us not get bogged down in this. Are there not other issues facing the Pantheon that could be discussed? Other stories of our followers that could be shared?

There is no law of any type that recognizes either's claim for these lands over the other. Both are free to do what they wish to convert these areas. For the sake of O-gon-cho's - and, therefore, my court's - strength I wish it was otherwise. She will waste time and energy on this matter, regardless of the outcome. However, that is certainly her right. I only ask that all parties keep any destructive energies away from the Forest.

Well said, Deva and Zephyr.

I am loathe to continue a debate after a concensus has been reached but I have been misrepresented again.

Calais wrote: I do not twist your words. You stated that she does not need to negotiate because the lands are hers by historical claim.

I said she does not need to negotiate because she makes reasonable demands: a slice, rather than all, of the continent.

The historic claim to the land is the reason why it is unreasonable to evict her followers.

Calais wrote:I listen to common sense, Amplarx. So far, I have heard none from you.

Pointless baiting. By attempting to insult me you merely acknowledge that you have conceded the point.

Calais wrote:Is that a threat? A challenge? Or a warning? Either way, it is looking more and more to me that some of the members of the Pantheon cannot debate without a gauntlet being thrown.

It's none of those things, it's a statement of fact.

O-gon-cho wrote:Brethren...enough.
Deva has the right of it, Bel, in saying the coming contest will determine the outcome.

Thank you sister of Light. *bows*

Amplarx wrote:I am loathe to continue a debate after a concensus has been reached ...

Apparently not brother Vengeance! *chuckles*

But you would not be true to your domain if you did not go for the last word! Come, let me share with you some of Telmag's wonderful Dwarrow ale!!

No Amplarx. I do not insult. Insults are boring. it is I that state fact.

But I am done wasting my breath with those who refuse to listen. It is, after all, their fight and it has become an argument between you and I, Amplarx.

Deva, I will take some of that Dwarrow ale too!

Well said Calais! Dwarrow ale for any who want!! I am buying the first round!! *chuckles*

Calais wrote:Anaya wrote:

It would seem to me that O-gon-cho is no more required to accede to uKulwa's request to leave Imray than uKulwa is to accede to her request that the continent be shared. And if her historic claim to the land is invalidated by the long years that have passed since her departure from Eiran, that does not make his claim any more valid.

This is exactly my point. They both have equal claim. uKulwa has made a conscientious effort to fairly purchase the land from O-gon-cho whereas she has made no offer. She demands it outright, claiming it is more hers than his.

No Calais. She has offered to share it with him. He cannot accept this for he has demanded it outright and has thus made an offer to help her relocate. Generous though it may be, relocating from the lands does not fit with O-gon-cho's vision, just as sharing the lands does not fit with uKulwa's. Just because he has offered her terms does not mean she is bound to accept them, regardless of how fair you or I or any other believe they are.

Calais wrote:It seems that the Sunrise Court backs her in this claim, attempting I think to bully unaligned gods.

We shall have to see whether War is as all-powerful as they anticipate.

This seems a rather ominous prediction, Anaya. Perhaps more of the Sunrise Court will be involved in this conflict than previously thought. The Sunrise Court is banding together to intimidate and bully unaligned gods.

I stepped in when I perceived that O-gon-cho was being attacked for not accepting uKulwa's terms. Where those terms generous? Perhaps. Should she have accepted them? Again, maybe she should have. Do any of us have the right to force her to do so? No, but it appears that that is what others have attempted to do (and I only say appears). Thus I have stepped in to defend my own, as I would if you and I were allies and you had come under like attack.

As for your belief that there may be more the one deity from the Sunrise Court involved in this conflict, I will agree that that is possible. As a member of the same Court as O-gon-cho I share her strengths and weaknesses, so how could I do otherwise?

Devaguhya wrote:The stray lightening strike that hits and burns a part of a forest [*bows* apologies brother Zephyr] is needed for healthy growth and greater Life.

No apology needed, Devaguhya, although I appreciate your consideration. I understand your point, and, indeed, Forests work this way. (Although I will be changing that. I have a better system in mind.)

Brid wonders at the conspicuous absence of the Goddess of Justice.

O-gon-cho wrote:uKulwa and I will vie honorably for the lands we desire...

You speak the truth Sister. So honourably indeed that I do not begrudge you the advantage of empowering your first effort while I do not.

Ignore the rantings of those unaffected by our struggle. In the end, it will be between us, and our skills will demonstrate the truth or foolishness of our claims.

Brid wrote:Brid wonders at the conspicuous absence of the Goddess of Justice.

not absent, my dear outcast, merely watching.

has a crime been committed? none that i see thus far.

look you, the parties speak justly to one another and
agree to disagree and solve the disagreement between
themselves.

uKulwa wrote:

O-gon-cho wrote:uKulwa and I will vie honorably for the lands we desire...

You speak the truth Sister. So honourably indeed that I do not begrudge you the advantage of empowering your first effort while I do not.

Ignore the rantings of those unaffected by our struggle. In the end, it will be between us, and our skills will demonstrate the truth or foolishness of our claims.

i see no cause for opinion or action on my part.
i am not here in Eiran to mediate the squabbles of gods.

So...while I adhere to the letter of my agreement, the Centaurs of O-Gon-Cho declare crusade against my followers, hoping to eliminate my impis from the path of the Goddess of Light.

I put all on notice that my crushing of this crusade will not violate the four season immunity, as it will be in response to unnecessary aggression.

However, aware as I am of the vagaries of the faithful, I do not accuse my sister of engineering this crusade deliberately, though I suspect her attitude towards me caused it.

And likewise, I assure her that my actions against these crusaders are not an assault on her. I merely seek to defend myself against attacks.

Sister, I urge you...seek you other homes in this time of immunity...Even your more peaceful faithful have felt driven to war...how much more so with my more warlike worshippers once the immunity is passed?