Kevin's Watch

I can't stand ordering Blue Moon and getting an orange slice in the glass!

Lol...the "don't fruit your beer" man law. One of my ex's got me started on Blue Moon, first time i had it there was the orange wedge in it, i've never had it on draft w/o the orange.

Welcome to the Galley, storm!

Malik doesn't drop in often, so be patient. I am sure he will have suggestions for you as soon as he sees your post.

Storm wrote:Since Malik seems to be the Lord-fatherer of beer, i need some suggestions. Typically I'm an ale guy, Blue Moon (i'll probably be excommunicated for this) is my favorite, i enjoy the light, crisp taste and the orange mouthfeel...but i need to expand my horizons. So, considering what i've listed as my favorite beer, could you give me about 5 suggestions for microbrews that you think i might enjoy.

Well, I haven't checked in here in over a week, but today my beer-sense was going off. And as luck would have it, I have a request for suggestions.

This is difficult. American mass producers have misled people for decades on what beer is supposed to taste like. It is produced for the lowest common denominator, being as tasteless and thin as possible to offend the least amount of people. This is inexplicable to me, because I think mass-produced beer tastes like piss. And now we're exporting our lack of taste to the whole world, so that even in places that have rich brewing traditions, pale American lagers are taking over the world market. Weird. Places like England should know better.

But America is also leading the way back, charging forward with a healthy and growing craft brew market. This has led the "big boys" like Coors to produce watered-down imitations of true craft brew. Which is what Blue Moon is. [Edit: not to give the impression that it's imitating American craft beer--it's a Belgian style.]

Don't get me wrong, Blue Moon is orders of magnitude better than something like Bud. But it's still an "imitation" of the real thing. Specifically, it's an imitation of a Belgian Witbeer, which is a spiced, Belgian wheat beer. If you want to try some a little higher on the "beer hierarchy," Hoegaarden is easily attainable. I don't really like it, myself, though. But not because it's a bad beer; it's just a style I don't drink much, due to the strong spicey flavors (orange and coriander).

Personally, I think that Unibrou makes some of the best Belgian wheat beers. I mentioned Don De Dieu on the last page, complete with link and description. Given your fondness for Blue Moon, I think you'll love this one. But be careful . . . it's 67% stronger in terms of alcohol! And probably 200% stronger in taste, if quantifying "taste" were possible.

However, herein lies the problem. Experimenting with better beers means tasting flavors you're not used to tasting. It's like working up the white wine-to-red-wine ladder. Your tastes will change, and you'll grow more accustomed to more intense flavors. So something which I think is absolutely wonderful right now, you probably would think tastes horrible. Many years ago, I couldn't stand some of my current favorites. They were simply too intense (Sierra Nevada Bigfoot, any Russian Imperial Stout, etc.).

So, basically, I could make you a long list of beers I love, which you'd probably hate, and then you'd think my advice is useless. So I encourage you to go to Ratebeer.com, and look at the thousands of reviews they have in their database. They rank beers by style, by country, by brewer, etc. While I personally think that numerically ranking beers is a little silly, I still find their rankings to follow my tastes--though, again, I'm speaking as someone who has been spending years developing his palate towards increasingly intense beers. And the members of Ratebeer.com have, too.

So pick a style you like, read the descriptions, and go buy one! Also, you might want to try going back to the website with the beer in hand, and read the reviews while you drink it, trying to taste the multitude of flavors people find in this wonderfully complex beverage we call beer. You'll find that putting a description to a particular flavor helps you to recognize it.

Anyway, this was probably more (and less) help than you were interested in. But I don't know any other way to answer this question.

Outstanding...thank you for a nice detailed reply.

...I'll look into the suggestion you provided with the link, its time for me to expand my beer horizons.

I found a new favorite winter beer this weekend. It's called "Smoke on the Porter" and is brewed by the New Glarus Brewing Company, just outside of Madison, WI.

This was a very dark, creamy porter, but apparently they smoke the barley before brewing in the meat smokehouse next to the brewery. You can just get a hint of the wood-smoke aroma from the beer. It's great! If you like dark beers and/or smoked meats, try to check it out.

Here's their website. www.newglarusbrewing.com/beers.html

Unfortunately, they don't sell from their website, but if you see some in the stores, pick it up! And most of their other brews are pretty good as well.

New Glarus is a world-class brewery. Their stuff is very highly rated. However, they have a limited distribution. I've never tried one, myself. But I'd love to change that!

Smoked beers are wonderful. Stone's smoked porter has nice, subtle smokey flavor that goes well with the dark roasted malt.

I had never even heard of a smoked beer before. And then my wife brought this home from the store one day, cause she thought I'd like it; how cool is that? (I feel so lucky.... with the wife as well as the beer )

But yeah, I was totally blown away by how good this was. Is the Stone's that you mentioned mass distributed? I don't think I've ever seen it.

And I'd be happy to send you some New Glarus brews, if I could figure out how to get them to you without getting broken, or worse, skunky. Any ideas? (I'm actually not even sure if that's legal. Isn't there a law against shipping alcohol across state lines? )

Yes, Stone's has a nationwide distribution. There might be some gaps, though. It comes out of California, and I get it here in KY as well as TN. They are famous for making Arrogant Bastard ale (an American strong ale). But I probably drink their standard IPA more than any other.

Man, you can send me any beer you want, anytime! No, it's not illegal to ship beer. . . I don't think. I've mailed some of my homebrew out to Denny Conn for his evaluation (he's a homebrew guru). However, it is quite a bit of trouble to pack bottles for shipping. I wrap with that bubble stuff, several layers all the way around, then fill the box with plenty of "popcorn." Using a box that was made to ship bottles is also handy if you're shipping more than one, since they have cardboard separators which keep them all aligned. But we're talking some major shipping costs, here, plus the cost of the beer. With Christmas coming up, I'd feel guilty taking you up on your offer. If you're serious, I'd pay shipping and cost of the beer. Or we could work out a swap if you can't get any Stone brews where you're at. PM me and we can exchange addresses. But seriously, this is a lot of trouble, and I wouldn't blame you at all if you changed your mind.

There are Internet retailers, btw, which carry just about anything you could imagine. If you're wanting to try some which are out of your area, that's a sure bet. I've shied away from those myself because of the cost of shipping, and the availability of 100s of brands right down the street. Liquor Barn is like an adult's version of Toys R Us.

You brew your own and send it to somebody to eval? (The big grin emoticon doesn't do justice to my current facial expression ).
Wow. Color me impressed.

I would totally be up for some beer swapping. Seriously. I love trying new brews, too. But waiting until the holidays are over is probably a good plan. (BTW - I'm surprised you celebrate Christmas, being an aetheist and all - is it more of a mid-winter fest for you?) So yeah, I'll PM you mid-January, then go down and hassel the post-office. (They're just gonna love me )

Malik, I figured this must be a question for you: I recently went to one of my friends place for lunch. He makes his own beer, and we meet whenever they are ready (which means about once every three months or so). Now, he has a habit of experimenting with spicing his beer up using fruit pulps and juices as a minor sugar source in the fermentation proces. The last one he made was with peach and brown sugar. Now, it was not sweet, the sugar was almost completely metabolised. Nor was it fruity, even if you would have thought that the peach would do that. However, it had a strong but not unpleasant taste of pure liquoriche (not aniseed)! And he swore that he hadn't added anything of the sort. Have you got a suggestion as to the chemistry of that? I'm thinking sulphur compounds, but I don't know.

I did suffer the worst hangover for a few years, come to think of it.

Prebe wrote:Malik, I figured this must be a question for you: I recently went to one of my friends place for lunch. He makes his own beer, and we meet whenever they are ready (which means about once every three months or so). Now, he has a habit of experimenting with spicing his beer up using fruit pulps and juices as a minor sugar source in the fermentation proces. The last one he made was with peach and brown sugar. Now, it was not sweet, the sugar was almost completely metabolised. Nor was it fruity, even if you would have thought that the peach would do that. However, it had a strong but not unpleasant taste of pure liquoriche (not aniseed)! And he swore that he hadn't added anything of the sort. Have you got a suggestion as to the chemistry of that? I'm thinking sulphur compounds, but I don't know.

I did suffer the worst hangover for a few years, come to think of it.

A hangover from homebrew is indeed strange, since it is almost universally unfiltered. Therefore, it has plenty of yeast floating around in it--which is a potent source of natural vitamin B12. That tends to help with hangovers.

Fruit beers are not necessarily fruity, just like chocolate stouts aren't necessarily chocolatey ("chocolate" usually refers to a kind of roasted malted barely called "chocolate malt," not added chocolate). Fructose and sucrose are extremely fermentable sugars, at least compared to the sugars in malted barley (maltose). So a large proportion of that sugar is going to be fermented into alcohol, as you speculated. In fact, some people add table sugar (sucrose) to some styles to lighten the body and add more alcohol (this would also include the brown sugar you mentioned). So fruit beers don't have to be necessarily sweet. Nor are they necessarily fruity, but you'd expect a little fruit taste at least. The reviews I've found online for some of the New Glarus brews (which Mortice Root mentioned) are extremely cherry tasting.

As far as licorice goes, that's certainly a quality which can be produced by yeast. Brewers' yeast produce many, many compounds, depending on the yeast strain. Wild Belgian yeasts can produce tart/sour, spicey/peppery, or fruity-banana flavors. I have read about the chemistry, but I'm no expert on this. I've brewed about 40 five gallon batches, but I still consider myself an intermediate brewer . . . though last year I upgraded to all-grain brewing, in which you mash your own grains to extract the sugars directly from the malted barley, instead of using malt extracts (syrups or powders).

Malik wrote:though last year I upgraded to all-grain brewing, in which you mash your own grains to extract the sugars directly from the malted barley, instead of using malt extracts (syrups or powders).

Kewl!
That was the way I would be going if I started brewing! None of that "cheating"! We even have a utility room perfect for that sort of thing. Incidentally the Danish word for utility room is "Bryggers" meaning "Brewing room"

So the flavours/esterisation is mainly yeast strain based you think? Well, one of my guesses was that a wild strain had snuck in. Thanks Malik.

Actually, it shouldn't surprise me, since what we call yeasts is a very diverse group of organisms, and they probably sythesise broad variety of secondary metabolites, like esters and aromatic compunds.

Edit: I see that I spelled licorice just about the ONLY way it can't be spelled

Rickards. A Molson owned beermaker in Canada, has always made a fine Red Ale. The have just come out with a new variety case, that has Their Red, as well as their new White (and I LOVE whitebeer-and this whitebeer actually has some alcohol in it, somehting I notice thats missing from others) and it also comes with ome honeybrown.

The best thing about a god honeybrown beer, is its ability to be drank at room temprature and still taste great.

Prebe, it's also possible that some sort of bacteria infected the beer. This can produce unpleasant "off-flavors," but doesn't always mean you have to toss the beer. Low levels can still be drinkable. No known pathogens can survive in beer. The acidity and the alcohol kills off anything dangerous. But they can affect the fermentation process and produce funky flavors.

Yes, yeast can produce esters and phenols. Usually, the warmer the fermentation, the more produced. Brewers often go to great pains to control the fermentation temps in order to have "clean" fermentations. Lagers, especially, require very low temps, and are usually done in a cooler. My system is decidedly low-tech: I put my glass fermenters in our chilly basement and put a wet towel over them. This doesn't work as well in the summer. That's why I brew ales instead of lagers; they are much more forgiving and can be brewed at higher temps.

If you're really interested in brewing, I'd recommend "cheating" first. Use the malt extracts. They are of high quality nowadays. This allows you to get your system down to a routine before you tackle the complexity of starch conversion, enzyme production, precise temperature control, acidity levels, sparge technique, etc. Mashing can be very complex, depending on the style you brew. However, Denny Conn has a very simple technique which I use: batch sparging.

Incidentally the Danish word for utility room is "Bryggers" meaning "Brewing room"

That's freakin' awwwesome! Beer used to be a local product. Homebrewing and craft brewing is bringing back that tradition.

malik wrote:Yes, yeast can produce esters and phenols. Usually, the warmer the fermentation, the more produced.

Well, that would certainly explain why my friends brew (3 gal. tank under the kitchen roof) never taste the same

About the cheating, I feel convinced that I have a head start, since I have degrees in biochemistry, microbiology, botany and mycology. Although, when it comes to beer, I should really have more respect for the wisdom and knowledge of my forefathers (and those with more experience, e.g. you). However, I ALWAYS have to learn the hard way (time after time, I might add) that academia rarely saves the day when it comes to intoxicants

Edit: Totally cool link! I see now that I need a bigger "bryggers" to really get things moving. Really good brewing is just not possible on the small scale I gather.

Prebe wrote: About the cheating, I feel convinced that I have a head start, since I have degrees in biochemistry, microbiology, botany and mycology. Although, when it comes to beer, I should really have more respect for the wisdom and knowledge of my forefathers (and those with more experience, e.g. you). However, I ALWAYS have to learn the hard way (time after time, I might add) that academia rarely saves the day when it comes to intoxicants

Well, I feel a little silly now, suggesting caution. You clearly have a more science background than I do. However, are you a good cook?

Brewing is like cooking and chemistry lab together. Knowledge certainly helps, but having the process down and knowing what to do and when to do it--putting the knowledge into practice--is altogether different. Brew day can last 8 hours, sometimes more depending on the style you brew and if you cleanup in the same day. And there are so many stages that critically affect the flavor. A couple degrees difference in 15 pounds of grain soaking in many gallons of hot water can critically affect the type and amount of enzymes created to break the starches down to sugars. The difference between a beer mashed at 152 F and 159 F can be quite pronounced in the final product. Any fool can read a thermometer. You're more than qualified to do that. But managing all these crucial facts in an extremely time-sensitive regimen--especially if you are picky about achieving a specific end result--is quite a challenge. That's not to say that you'd brew a bad beer if you missed any of your targets by a little, but you'll definitely have a different beer. Consistency is one of the biggest challenges for homebrewers.

Edit: Totally cool link! I see now that I need a bigger "bryggers" to really get things moving. Really good brewing is just not possible on the small scale I gather.

I do my brewing in a medium sized kitchen. On the stove top. Most all-grain brewers do it outside with a propane burner and huge ass kettle. Some of these guys do 10-20 gallon batches. Not me. I'm very low tech, and as cheap as possible. In fact, I take pride in how cheaply my wonderful brews are made. But you don't need as much room as you'd think. You might find that places to store your beer become the biggest problem, depending on how often you brew . . . and drink. They tend to form a vicious self-reinforcing loop.

Wasn't sure whether to post this here, or in Kevin's Cookbook....

Has Guinness Red reached the States yet? Apparently the barley is roasted for less time than in regular Guinness. A friend who loves his ales, tried it and gave it the thumbs up.

(Tho his taste is so different from mine, that'd probably be a thumbs down from me!)

Never tried it. Guinness was my original "gateway" beer, and there was a time when I considered it a real treat. I haven't had one in years. I wouldn't mind trying the one you've suggested, but I don't hold high expectations for this brewery.

I've got something special planned for Christmas. Yes, I'm celebrating Jesus' B-day with a Russian Imperial Stout drink-off: six of the best Imperial Stouts on the planet, tasted side-by-side, in a fierce competition for the coveted title of "Malik's Favorite RIS."

I'll be sampling: Stone RIS, North Coast Old Rasputin RIS, Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout, Dogfish Head World Wide Stout (18% abv!!!!), Great Divide Oak Aged Yeti Imperial Stout, and Thirsty Dog Siberian Night Imperial Stout. I can't wait! Christmas can't get here soon enough!

And the winner of Malik's competition is.......??

Inquiring minds want to know!