Kevin's Watch

Though, if Laurel in character were to avoid doing the "right" thing in order to make sure that people still like her...

That would say a lot. She *IS* basically a dark ages diva, after all. An attention whore. I could see it going either way.

AllMother wrote:Weatherby nods, silent and smiling and waits for the next person to speak.

Yeah!!

Heh. Just noticed that one of Gener's posts was made with this account. Pretend otherwise, please.

I knew I would lose when it comes to actual debate, but I'll do my best. I just don't know how to explain to a primitive society the concept of "ghettos." Other than likening them to leper colonies, as I've already done.

I do have a question for syl. How would a citizen of Twinsriver, such as a common farmer like Gener, have learned the epic tales and stories? Especially if the school had only focused on a basic, fundamental education before? From what I have seen so far in my own results, harpers and/or bards were pretty much an unknown in this society.

hmm...perhaps I can work surprise at Gener's knowledge in to Laurel's response. But today is an active one IRL for me, so a response from Laurel will have to wait.

I don't think people before an era like the Enlightenment would be particularly concerned with ghettos, and people that live outside of cities certainly wouldn't. 'This is where I live; that is where they live' kind of mentality.

In fact, before wide-scale intensive agriculture and global trade came to Europe, you basically had just a ruling class, the clergy, and then everyone else, resulting in a very monochromatic culture. In a lot of ways, much more egalitarian, since it wasn't before the rise of the middle class that the church decided it needed to get some of that action, for the first time introducing ideas like judgment by Christ upon one's death, rather than a more communal afterlife until judgment day (hence catacombs and other cultural acceptable mass burials).

As for learning, most didn't, except for the oral tradition and what you could pick up from your parents. The rich would have tutors, and novitiates would learn from other clergy. Once the middle class rises, you get schools modeled on the Roman ones, but other than that, I think it's mainly the master/apprentice relationship.

Or do you mean how would Gener learn something? Not the song about the mountain troll? That's just a folk song that everybody would've heard (oral tradition). The rest of what he's learned has been more along the lines of the clergy, having a pretty good collection of family scrolls as well as divine revelation/inspiration.

*nod*
The culture is what I figured, but still wanted to bring in to play the distinction of what is considered the "heart" of the village, as it is apparent Gener and Laurel have two very different ideas regarding what should be preserved.

But, yeah. My concern was regarding Gener's knowledge of songs such as epic lays. I am guessing I assumed correctly such teachings would be up to Laurel and other Harpers/bards that Artistry has attracted, and such moral lessons from history may not be generally known. That helps me in determining how Laurel should reply.

Thanks.

Well, if you haven't figured it by now, Gener's a pretty hard core conservative (has anyone figured out the avatar?). Things like tradition and patriotism, as he understand it, mean a lot to him, but 'hearts and minds' stuff will probably seem like nonsense.

And don't be fooled by that "I'm a simple farmer" routine. While he's not lying when he says it, the dude's descended from royalty, pretty much, so he's not a dumb hick.

He's a smart, fairly well self-educated hick?

[Syl Embattled] wrote:(has anyone figured out the avatar?)

Not offhand, although it looks like a stylized Lenin to me.
But I imagine that would be as far from a "conservative" as one can get.

[Syl Embattled] wrote:And don't be fooled by that "I'm a simple farmer" routine. While he's not lying when he says it, the dude's descended from royalty, pretty much, so he's not a dumb hick.

Now that's interesting to know, even if OoC. Unless you are saying it is common knowledge within Twinsriver. Something to be played on? Or not known until shown in game?

It's common knowledge that Gener and his family are descended from Kimer the Fierce, someone important enough in Twinsriver's antiquity to not only be remembered now but be revered.

I'd really like to know about the wall. Houses, shops, etc, are not on the map, so I don't know where it all is. I assume the marketplace is in the center of the town? So the wall's up in that general area? And the temple/dojo is surely outside of it?

As I understand it, the town is the orange octagon. Everything in the town is in the octagon. The wall is the outside edge of the octagon.

Yeah? The map says that's the marketplace, but probably close enough to not make a difference.

Yeah, I looked at the map legend after I typed that, and I see what you mean. But since everything else is either farmland or resources... figure that's where the actual houses and stuff have to be. Suppose it makes sense, since people don't usually walk that far to man their stores and all (actually, they probably just walk downstairs or whatever).

Yup. Cool. Thanks.

That probably has a lot to do with why I didn't understand why there isn't room within the walls. To me, the marketplace is definitely just a part of the village.

Will definitely look forward to seeing an updated map.

Gener wrote:the townsfolk seeing fit to elect me to this office upon the strength of it. Perhaps you were distracted at the time, composing one of your songs.

I'll admit point blank this may be some of it. As far as I can tell, there was no election. Some discussion in thread about Gener running for the position, but no call for votes or anything. No one informed me that our submission should mention our opinion of electing a magistrate; no one contacted me behind the scenes that such was sought. It definitely was not mentioned in thread. Just an announcement that Gener was the new magistrate. And upon questioning, was told he was appointed by the coucil, based on "overwhelming player input" and had "absolute power."

I do feel a bit left out, but aside from that, I do feel Laurel has qualifications regarding any one member of the village having "absolute power." I'm playing that the best I can, but admit frankly I'm not much at standing up to a challenge.

You think too much. There was no position of "magistrate" until I said there should be, first in public and then in my submission:

I ask the people of Twinsriver to support the platform I put forward publicly in my discussion with the other prophets. Chiefly, I want them to elect me as magistrate to deal with the menace to our culture from outsiders.

What the elders chose to do with that, I can't help, but I am simply following the path I set out on. If you offer to work with Gener, I'm sure he'll be happy to find something that works for everyone. But if you simply work to oppose him...

There's going to be an updated map coming soon.

As far as the wall is concerned, I see the town to be mostly in the center and to the west. It's the east side of the east river that's pretty much empty and outside of the village proper.

AllMother wrote:There's going to be an updated map coming soon.

AllMother wrote:As far as the wall is concerned, I see the town to be mostly in the center and to the west. It's the east side of the east river that's pretty much empty and outside of the village proper.

So, is there room within the walls for these welcome houses and gardens? It does sounds as if the area is larger than what syl thought there was.

[Syl Embattled] wrote:If you offer to work with Gener, I'm sure he'll be happy to find something that works for everyone. But if you simply work to oppose him...

I don't envision Laurel working to oppose him; she just does not wish to see any one member of the society which has been ruled well by a council have absolute authority above everyone. That again would strike at the "heart" of the culture of Twinsriver, in my opinion.