President Trump

[Zarathustra]

What would I add to our current vetting to make it stronger? Well, perhaps an inquiry into whether the refugee or immigrant comes from a terrorist-prone region! And if they do, then don't let them in! That would certainly strengthen the vetting process.

I'd love to know what you think the refugees are running from. If they weren't living in dangerous, perhaps war-torn or terrorist regions, they wouldn't be refugees. That's pretty much a guarantee that the actions of the people destroying their country is the reason they aren't allowed in, which is just ridiculous. This is a solution looking for a problem.

Do you know how many refugees there are on this planet? Should we let in anyone who doesn't like where he lives?

There were 50 million refugees in 2014, and I'm sure that number has gone up since then. Should we let them all in? Do we really want to flood our country with millions of 3rd world, uneducated, non-English speaking, non-skilled, culturally backward people? Where would we put them? Do you want millions of people who don't share your community's values living next to you? Do you know what is happening in Europe where they've had mass immigration? The mass rapes? The changing of the culture? The massive increase in terrorism?

This is lunacy. The world's problems are not ours. If we want to help, we have a military for that. We don't have to invite them into our home.

[rdhopeca]

What would I add to our current vetting to make it stronger? Well, perhaps an inquiry into whether the refugee or immigrant comes from a terrorist-prone region! And if they do, then don't let them in! That would certainly strengthen the vetting process.

I'd love to know what you think the refugees are running from. If they weren't living in dangerous, perhaps war-torn or terrorist regions, they wouldn't be refugees. That's pretty much a guarantee that the actions of the people destroying their country is the reason they aren't allowed in, which is just ridiculous. This is a solution looking for a problem.

Do you know how many refugees there are on this planet? Should we let in anyone who doesn't like where he lives?

There were 50 million refugees in 2014, and I'm sure that number has gone up since then. Should we let them all in? Do we really want to flood our country with millions of 3rd world, uneducated, non-English speaking, non-skilled, culturally backward people? Where would we put them? Do you want millions of people who don't share your community's values living next to you? Do you know what is happening in Europe where they've had mass immigration? The mass rapes? The changing of the culture? The massive increase in terrorism?

This is lunacy. The world's problems are not ours. If we want to help, we have a military for that. We don't have to invite them into our home.

That's not my point. My point is that your suggestion of a test for "where do you come from" for refugees fleeing the terrorists themselves is flawed, discriminatory, and designed to make sure the refugees don't get help at all.

The lunacy IMO is how far down the inhumane rabbit hole this discussion has gone. The Statue of Liberty doesn't say on it "ok we've had enough the rest of you can GTFO." It says "give us your tired, your poor, your hungry"...each and every one of us with European ancestry are immigrants ourselves. To suggest now that we turn our backs on others who are willing to go through a legal, two year vetting process to come here, and then generally become decent members of society, is just fear-mongering.

It may not be our responsibility to solve the world's problems, but we don't have to be inhumane dicks while we're doing it.

[Cail]

Right, and that's not "vetting", that's a flat denial based on nationality.

Still waiting on an answer as to what the feds could have done differently to stop Omar Mateen.

[Ur Dead]

See what happens in 3 months.
He based it off of Obama selection of countries who have the most terrorists. More so he is fulfilling a campaign promise.
That is taking future bullet away from the democrats who would exploit that if he didn't do it. It makes him look good in the eyes of those who voted for him.
(Some of those people want a permanent ban but ..)
After 3 months it goes off.
It rattling the chains of the most ardent left wingers. It making a noise and see what cockroaches scatter.
For Trump.. this is a good business practice...
It's an art of the deal..

[Hashi Lebwohl]

It may not be our responsibility to solve the world's problems, but we don't have to be inhumane dicks while we're doing it.

I cannot disagree with this sentiment. It is a shame, though, that we sometimes give priority to refugees because of their situation but we aren't bending over backwards to help our own homeless people who are already citizens, either.

[rdhopeca]

It may not be our responsibility to solve the world's problems, but we don't have to be inhumane dicks while we're doing it.

I cannot disagree with this sentiment. It is a shame, though, that we sometimes give priority to refugees because of their situation but we aren't bending over backwards to help our own homeless people who are already citizens, either.

I completely agree, sir. I'd love to see more in that regard as well.

[Zarathustra]

That's not my point. My point is that your suggestion of a test for "where do you come from" for refugees fleeing the terrorists themselves is flawed, discriminatory, and designed to make sure the refugees don't get help at all.

I didn't say not to help them. There is lots of help we can offer to the world besides opening our country to populations that have the singular distinction of producing closed-minded, medieval types who hate America.

For instance, we could have not abandoned Iraq to ISIS. We could have not joked about ISIS being a JV team when they had already conquered Mosul. We could have not drawn imaginary red lines that later didn't mean anything when Assad gassed his own people.

There's lots of heartless things Obama did that contributed to this refugee flow--things he's directly responsible for that contributed to this problem. But we only hear cries of inhumanity when there is a Republican in the White House having do deal with Obama's mess ... a Republican who is doing exactly what Obama did, btw, in 2011 with regards to Iraqi refugees when it was learned that terrorists were infiltrating them. There were no cries of inhumanity then, oddly enough. That means this is just the usual, predictable partisan bitchfest. No one gave a fuck about those poor Iraqi refugees when it was a Democrat denying them entry into the U.S., so it's about six years too late to pull the "it's inhumane" card now. Where were you then? Did you not hear about it? Gee, I wonder why ... (hint: the mainstream media--i.e., the guys who tell you what to think and what to be pissed off about--is about 90% Democrat and they didnt' give a fuck about those Iraqis, either ... this is just an excuse to attack Trump. Progressives don't have values, they only have political strategies.)

The Statue of Liberty doesn't say on it "ok we've had enough the rest of you can GTFO." It says "give us your tired, your poor, your hungry"...each and every one of us with European ancestry are immigrants ourselves.

It's amazing how the Left vacillates between caricatures of European immigrants being evil slave owners and/or sea pirates who robbed the Native Americans of their lands, and then back to noble immigrants who shame us for wanting to be choosy about who we let in our country nowadays in the era of global jihad. I'm confused, am I supposed to hate Europeans for stealing the Native Americans' land? Or am I supposed to root for those Europeans to allow the land stealing to extend its centuries-long plunder to include yet more people who were never born here?

I'm sick of being guilt-tripped and shamed into doing stupid stuff that makes us less safe based on poetry, political correctness, and other nonsense (and so is a majority of Americans). I think our country has enough tired, poor, huddled masses. If the Left views the Constitution [i.e. an actual legal document that gives Trump the power to this] as a "living document" amendable to whatever cultural whim is in fashion, then perhaps you'll forgive me for being a bit more choosy than allowing our immigration policy to be set by some 1903 poem written as a fund raiser for the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

It's amazing how the Left vacillates between caricatures of European immigrants being evil slave owners and/or sea pirates who robbed the Native Americans of their lands, and then back to noble immigrants who shame us for wanting to be choosy about who we let in our country nowadays in the era of global jihad. I'm confused, am I supposed to hate Europeans for stealing the Native Americans' land? Or am I supposed to root for those Europeans to allow the land stealing to extend its centuries-long plunder to include yet more people who were never born here?

I like this line of thought and will use it as a counter-argument when the need arises.

*************

Even in jest, Trump, you don't suggest to a fellow national leader, Enrique Pena Nieto in this instance, that you will send in your military to stop "bad hombres". Invading another country is neither lighthearted nor a joke.

Trump's number one problem is that he has spent so many years being the boss that he knows only to how speak at people instead of with them. Most people don't work for you, Mr. Trump, so quit treating them like replaceable employees.

Trumps number two problem is that he has no filter--he says, or tweets, whatever pops into his head.

[rdhopeca]

It's amazing how the Left vacillates between caricatures of European immigrants being evil slave owners and/or sea pirates who robbed the Native Americans of their lands, and then back to noble immigrants who shame us for wanting to be choosy about who we let in our country nowadays in the era of global jihad. I'm confused, am I supposed to hate Europeans for stealing the Native Americans' land? Or am I supposed to root for those Europeans to allow the land stealing to extend its centuries-long plunder to include yet more people who were never born here?

I like this line of thought and will use it as a counter-argument when the need arises.

The lack of empathy in this line of thinking disturbs me. You're not supposed to hate anyone. That's the point. Understanding that the opportunities that arose because people didn't turn your grandparents away when they came here are why we have this country in the first place. That's the point. Using whatever piece of history you want to argue for your own spewed hatred is fine, but it misses the point. We aren't taking in everyone, we haven't been taking in everyone. I hope when Bannon starts WWIII with China and they firebomb wherever you live that you aren't knocking on Canada's door trying to get your family to safety.

And you can stop characterizing my position as being Leftist. I'm not. And you can stop saying Progressives have no values. They're not the ones who elected a racist, xenophobic leader making good on his promises to govern from a position of hatred.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I don't think he was characterizing you, personally, in that regard; rather, he was pointing out the fact that at times many on the Left refer to European immigrants in times past as usurpers and plunderers but at other times the same people refer to current European immigrants as downtrodden people fleeing violence who are just looking for a quiet place to live out their lives. Which way is it? Are European immigrants good or bad?

I still don't think Trump is governing from a position of hatred, xenophobia, or whatever other negative pejorative is being applied to him. At worst, he is simply a blunt tool with no filter--as I noted, he spent so many years taking down to people as their boss that this is the only way he relates to anyone any more.

*************

The Senate Judiciary Committee has approved Jeff Session for Attorney General, so now the vote goes to the main Senate for final confirmation; this will probably happen by the end of next week.

Meanwhile, the Senate has confirmed Rex Tillerson as SecState, and both Steven Mnuchin for Treasury and Tom Price for HHS have been approved by their respective committees (their confirmations now head to the Senate floor).

[Vraith]

It's amazing how the Left vacillates between caricatures of European immigrants being evil slave owners and/or sea pirates who robbed the Native Americans of their lands, and then back to noble immigrants who shame us for wanting to be choosy about who we let in our country nowadays in the era of global jihad. I'm confused, am I supposed to hate Europeans for stealing the Native Americans' land? Or am I supposed to root for those Europeans to allow the land stealing to extend its centuries-long plunder to include yet more people who were never born here?

I like this line of thought and will use it as a counter-argument when the need arises.

*************

Only if you're dumb. Which you aren't. So you won't use it---or you will decide to be dumb.
And neither is Z. But Z used to play pragmatic/libertarian.
I wonder if/when he'll decide he's just been given a blowjob by a pro who doesn't give a shit about him, or the world, just about getting paid?

Literally every fucking thing is different...but some people want to pretend it is the same...but NO, it is NOT. EVERY fuckingthing, every FUCKINGthing, every fucking THING is different from the "example" presented.
Just like every fucking Republican wants to pretend the group they belong to is the same Heroic History that Reagan and Lincoln belonged to.[if/when and ONLY if/when it suits purposes. Don't damn CARE if it is true or not.]]

Both would hate Trump, Mitch, and Ryan [[and Lincoln would recognize Reagan for the fuck he was, but agree the others worse]].

[[extra funny sticky truth: the exact same people who want to be Lincoln/anti-slave Republicans ALSO say Lincoln was evil/anti-constitutional/state's rights killing monster.

[rdhopeca]

I don't think he was characterizing you, personally, in that regard; rather, he was pointing out the fact that at times many on the Left refer to European immigrants in times past as usurpers and plunderers but at other times the same people refer to current European immigrants as downtrodden people fleeing violence who are just looking for a quiet place to live out their lives. Which way is it? Are European immigrants good or bad?

They are neither, or both. It's not a black and white world. The point remains is that the country was founded on inclusivity of immigrants as well as other points you mentioned (protests et al). This sort of protectionist mantra is very xenophobic and targeted at specific groups of people. Hell, Trump can't even get the ban *right*, he targeted the wrong sets of Muslim countries based on the number of American deaths per country.

I still don't think Trump is governing from a position of hatred, xenophobia, or whatever other negative pejorative is being applied to him. At worst, he is simply a blunt tool with no filter--as I noted, he spent so many years taking down to people as their boss that this is the only way he relates to anyone any more.

We can agree to disagree on this. Everything he's said, everything he's done so far has been done with meanness and arrogance. Looks like hate, smells like hate...so...

[Hashi Lebwohl]

We can agree to disagree on this. Everything he's said, everything he's done so far has been done with meanness and arrogance. Looks like hate, smells like hate...so...

Sounds equitable to me. Truthfully, I don't like him all that much, either, which is why I didn't vote for him. I also think he is used to people being cowed by him, so that now that he is speaking with other world leaders they aren't as deferential as all the office sycophants and this is causing him some confusion.

[Avatar]

It's not a black and white world.

Exactly. And so many issues arise from people who try to act as though it is.

--A

[Zarathustra]

The lack of empathy in this line of thinking disturbs me. You're not supposed to hate anyone.

Tell that to the violent Trump protesters, the ones beating up Trump supporters.

I don't hate anyone. I hate bad ideas. I thought it was clear I was being sarcastic in the quote above. I'm not the one using history to argue for "spewed hatred." The Left selectively uses a slanted view of history to argue about how bad America is, from our Founding to the present day. We're "inhumane dicks" (sounds kind of hateful ...) if we don't support the policies you like ... that is, unless those policies are implemented by Obama.

I am disturbed by the manufactured outrage. It's totally fake and totally partisan. I have lots of empathy, but not for bullshit.

And you can stop characterizing my position as being Leftist. I'm not. And you can stop saying Progressives have no values. They're not the ones who elected a racist, xenophobic leader making good on his promises to govern from a position of hatred.

If your views aren't Left-leaning, I'll take your word for it, but your position in this debate aligns with the radical Left, the ones are committing violence and anarchy in Berkeley right now, for instance. (Go preach to them about empathy, tolerance, and hatred.)

This caricature of Trump as "racist, xenophobic, hateful" is a progressive, Leftist media creation. Propaganda. The fact that it's okay to be hateful when talking about Trump or his supporters--while preaching to us about hate--is just one of the reasons why I say progressives have no values. Maligning people with character assassination and ad hominem attacks just because they support policies you don't like is the epitome of hatefulness.

[aTOMiC]

This thread is filled with the kinds of comments that make me steer away from the Tank and political discussion as a whole. Everyone is so polarized to the point that no matter what position you take you sound like a hateful jerk with tunnel vision.

Leftists are categorized as being unrealistically emotional, dope smoking babies who prefer to be dependent on the Government for everything they require from life and therefore lose their minds when said government changes course in any way.

Conservatives are seen as self centered pricks who won't be satisfied until the planet is a smoking crater and everyone but themselves are subjugated and in chains like their Nazi ancestors.

I say free Zoloft for everyone and just freaking relax for God's sake. Both sides need to start giving each other the benefit of the doubt and behave with a little dignity, please.

Its my own fault for visiting the Tank or spending any time on Facebook. I should know better by now.

Sorry. I don't mean to rain on the parade. I know this is just a free expression of ideas but its not pretty to look at.

[Fist and Faith]

When did aTOMic become a Neo-KGB Radical Nazi Communist Khmer Rouge Demondim!?!?!!!

[Zarathustra]

This thread is filled with the kinds of comments that make me steer away from the Tank and political discussion as a whole. Everyone is so polarized to the point that no matter what position you take you sound like a hateful jerk with tunnel vision.

Emotions are running high. However, we have the Left nowadays talking about blowing up the White House and having a riot when a university invites a speaker whom they don't like. The hatred and violence is happening on one particular side, and everyone is just ignoring it as if it's justified. I don't understand how Leftist riots are okay. Can anyone point to a recent Rightist riot? I can't think of one.

Trump--the guy married to a Yugoslavian woman--is not a xenophobe. 100s of millions of Muslims in 43 countries aren't affected by his so-called "Muslim ban." Trump never said that all Mexicans are criminals, he was specifically talking about the criminal aliens, of which there are 100s of 1000s.

I'm willing to cut the Left some slack. If I have mischaracterized them, I'm willing to see the evidence.

Is there any evidence that they are willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt? Or, in this "it isn't black or white world," is Trump and his supporters unequivocally evil in their eyes?

I'm willing to review the evidence for open-mindedness in the Trump haters. However, given that they didn't even let him get past his inaugural address before they started protesting and attacking, it's going to have to be some damn impressive evidence of open-mindedness for me to believe it.

[SoulBiter]

I have been taking a hiatus from news and facebook. Of course some of that is due to work but still...

So Trump takes office. Does exactly what he ran on and its pissed off some people. Oh and its the same people that were protesting the entire time that he was running for office. Looting, beating up people, not allowing anyone with a conservative view to even espouse those views on Collage campus's. A college instructing those that don't want them there, to buy up the tickets and then not show up. So who is the communist here? Which group is blocking freedom?

For me. I am not going to like everything President Trump does. I didnt like everything that any President did since Ive been of voting age. But so far, he is getting more than any President that I remember before him, this early in his Presidency. So far I like the speed, and I like the fact that he doesnt care what the political talking heads think. He doesnt care that some people dont like his policies. He is not allowing that to hinder his agenda. Ive liked many of his picks. I really like his choice for SCOTUS.

So although I know many wont like him and probably wouldnt like me as President either, I would give him a A for agenda and fulfilling campaign promises. However I give him a F for not staying off of twitter and reacting to things he needs to let go.

[Ur Dead]

Another judge has chimes a section of the Presidents ban..


I am just wondering if he will have a newer order that will
abolish his first order and impose another with the basic effect
to implement his entry ban?