Kevin's Watch

Ainulindale wrote:Neuromancer (and Gibson) is cyberpunk (him and Sterling making it a vogue movement not long ago, and almsot a full blown new sub-genre)

Really it was lesser lights like Pat Cadigan and Michael Swanwick that made it a vogue movement. Gibson, whom I had the honour to meet a good many years ago, was rather nonplussed by the whole Cyberpunk thing. Though I do seem to remember hearing that Sterling was self-consciously 'movement' at one point.

It was rather like the way six or seven talented writers and Hell's own herd of giftless hacks rode Stephen King's coattails all through the 70s and 80s, until they had convinced themselves that 'Horror' was a viable commercial category. Then, as Harlan Ellison eloquently put it, the ship didn't sink; the ocean dried up.


By the way, I have finally picked up a copy of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell.

Really it was lesser lights like Pat Cadigan and Michael Swanwick that made it a vogue movement. Gibson, whom I had the honour to meet a good many years ago, was rather nonplussed by the whole Cyberpunk thing. Though I do seem to remember hearing that Sterling was self-consciously 'movement' at one point.

Many movements are not concious decisions, Gibsons role in the popularity of Cyberpunk makes him the name that comes up most often when reffering to Cyberpunk, whether he likes it or was at all concious of it. He is referred to as the father of 'Cyberpunk' - whether he calls hismelf that is largely not relevant.

I wouldn't call Michael Swanwick a lesser anything, as far as I'm concerned there probably isn't 25 writers superior to Swanwick in all of current fantasy or Science fiction.

It was rather like the way six or seven talented writers and Hell's own herd of giftless hacks rode Stephen King's coattails all through the 70s and 80s, until they had convinced themselves that 'Horror' was a viable commercial category.

I never considered King one of the elite horror writers, so I don't have much to add here, and will take your word for it.

I know I shouldn't have, as my "To Be Read" piles could probably be measured in yards now ...but I recently picked up a copy of Elizabeth Kostova's The Historian.

Now if I could only finish that history of France I've been working on for a month or so... I have made it up to the Restoration of the Monarchy following the second defeat of Napoleon. Maybe if I can finish that book I could break the logjam...

Go duchess! Go duchess! Read faster! Read faster!

Ainulindale wrote:Many movements are not concious decisions, Gibsons role in the popularity of Cyberpunk makes him the name that comes up most often when reffering to Cyberpunk, whether he likes it or was at all concious of it. He is referred to as the father of 'Cyberpunk' - whether he calls hismelf that is largely not relevant.

The thing is that Cyberpunk was a conscious decision. There were a couple of groups of writers that spent much of the 1980s issuing manifestos, fighting turf wars in fanzines like Cheap Truth and Patchin Review, hyping each other's books in reviews — a bona fide incestuous literary scene. Gibson wasn't really involved in that at all, but it was the claque that really popularized the idea of Cyberpunk as a cohesive subgenre and pushed it as the next wave of SF.

I wouldn't call Michael Swanwick a lesser anything, as far as I'm concerned there probably isn't 25 writers superior to Swanwick in all of current fantasy or Science fiction.

That's definitely true today. But he and his craft have come a long way in the last 20 years. When he was part of the Cyberpunk movement, he wasn't half the writer he is now. Really, I don't think Cyberpunk suited his talents particularly well.

I never considered King one of the elite horror writers, so I don't have much to add here, and will take your word for it.

He is certainly the elite seller among horror writers. Whether you like his books or not, he had the longest coattails of any writer since Tolkien. A lot of books were bought and hyped because publishers hoped to find the next Stephen King, but none of them made money on anything like that scale. In the end too many bad horror books were published, and the category imploded.

He is certainly the elite seller among horror writers. Whether you like his books or not, he had the longest coattails of any writer since Tolkien. A lot of books were bought and hyped because publishers hoped to find the next Stephen King, but none of them made money on anything like that scale. In the end too many bad horror books were published, and the category imploded.

I completely agree that he i the elite seller, and the the biggest name assocaited with horror in i,ne and probably the prior, and next generation. His place in the annals of fiction is sealed, and very few authors can make that claim right now. My point was a personal chocie in that as I consider a few of King's works exceptional he doesn't deliver consistently outstanding work in my mind compared to a Ramsey Campbell, Peter Straub, or a Thomas Ligotti. Sales don't really move me. genrally the only 'elite' factor that matters to me is quality.

That's definitely true today. But he and his craft have come a long way in the last 20 years. When he was part of the Cyberpunk movement, he wasn't half the writer he is now. Really, I don't think Cyberpunk suited his talents particularly well.

I don't know. almsot 20 years ago he wrote

Iron Dragon's Daughter

which I htink is one of the outstanding Sf novels and folloeed that a few years later with

Stations of the Tide

which I loved as well, not to mention various uollections like

Tales of Old Earth

which I think is just exceptional.[/quote]

I'll agree with you about The Iron Dragon's Daughter. That really was Swanwick's breakthrough work, I think, though of course he had previously won the Nebula for Stations of the Tide. Before that, I'm afraid, he was regarded as pretty small potatoes even by a lot of the other Cyberpunk writers. Some people, I suspect, have still never forgiven him for the survey of Cyberpunk he wrote for Asimov's in 1986. That was really the heyday of the movement, and Swanwick was almost a neophyte at the time.

According to sfsite.com, Iron Dragon was published in January, 1994. Stations won its Nebula for best novel of 1991. By that time, Cyberpunk had sown its wild oats, the
'movement' writers had grown up, and everybody had realized that Gibson was not the subversive world's answer to Heinlein after all. So really, when I'm talking about 'the movement', I'm referring to a time long before Swanwick established himself as the big name he is today.

you're right i mixed the two up (regarding read order). At any rate, if you haven't already read Perodic Table of Science Fiction - I highly recommend that.

Picked up David Brinn's Earth this weekend, and (finally) managed to get my hands on Book 2 of the Gap series, Forbidden Knowledge.

(And a collection of Poe, but that's for a different forum. )

--A

Crytsal Rain by Tobias Buckell
Summer Isle by Ian R. Macleod
Nocturne by Jus Neuce
Shapers of Darkness by David B. Coe

Ain wrote:Shapers of Darkness by David B. Coe

if you said David A. Coe I'd really be worried

"why don't The Shapers ever call me by my name?"

Isn't anyone reading A Feast for Crows???????????

It is excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!

caamora wrote:Isn't anyone reading A Feast for Crows???????????

It is excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes i am, currently at the chapter called 'The Reaver' about half way through.

Daniel Abraham's 'A Shadow in Summer', the first book in The Long Price Quartet

Christmas presents:
-The Land of Laughs by Jonathan Carroll
-The Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe
-Elric of Melniboné by Michael Moorcock

caamora wrote:Isn't anyone reading A Feast for Crows???????????

It is excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just read it a couple weeks ago, as a matter of fact. What can I say, except that it was worth the wait.

Silver Screen by Justina Robson
Tides by Scott Mackay
Context by John Meaney

got alastair reynolds' Diamond Dogs, Turquoise Days in my stocking!

Just bought M. John Harrison's "Viriconium".

Just bought M. John Harrison's "Viriconium".

Not many (less than 10) SF/F seuences better than that IMHO.

Ainulindale wrote:

Just bought M. John Harrison's "Viriconium".

Not many (less than 10) SF/F seuences better than that IMHO.

Can't wait to read it. I'm just trying to wrap up my read of "Book of the Long Sun" then I'm going to get into "Viriconium".