Kevin's Watch

The problem is that chaotic deities (not just Asta, but gods like Nor Yekith, who uses the law for his own purposes, and so on) will rarely, if ever, respect laws laid down by the pantheon - by their very nature, I could add. In this respect, creating laws that actually limit them is a hindrance for chaotic deities - they go against their nature by following them, or they get hurt by rejecting them.
On the other hand, you have deities such as Adomorn who depend on Law in order to function properly, so you do need at least some sort of vague guidelines for what is allowed and what is not - wide enough that players don't feel constrained, still definite enough that a god of justice, of law, or other such portfolio can use them as guidelines for rulings.

Remember that if Pantheon 3.0 is set in Eiran, the Laws you will have Hedra write on the Book of Law may bind the next batch of deities too...

Jove wrote:Does war have to mean the end of the second age?

I think so, yes. War doesn't have to be fought by armies alone. Undine could flood the lands with tidal waves, you could collapse economies, Mithyaat could make men made with nightmares, Simjem could create earthquakes, O-gon-cho could send her dragons out to burn forests and cities . . .

I am getting very depressed...

:::sigh:::

I barely have enough DRP to take care of domestic issues. How on Eiran am I going to take part in a Divine War??? Much less defend myself in one? I still haven't even officially chosen sides, if choose I must! (speaking of which, I still don't know if those borders will definitely be reset this Turn, m'l-rd Nor Yekith...)

May I just say I am not at all happy with this turn of events?

On Adomorn's Law, I've never really seen the necessity for it. I do feel that Hedra's laws are more restrictive than I would prefer, but there are many ways that the Law can still be worked with as it is.

Xar wrote:Remember that if Pantheon 3.0 is set in Eiran, the Laws you will have Hedra write on the Book of Law may bind the next batch of deities too...

Can I just say, I would greatly prefer it if the next game is run as a 'clean slate'. An entirely new world, no links back to the earlier games. I'd like the opportunity to start fresh.

O-gon-cho wrote:I am getting very depressed...

:::sigh:::

I barely have enough DRP to take care of domestic issues. How on Eiran am I going to take part in a Divine War??? Much less defend myself in one? I still haven't even officially chosen sides, if choose I must! (speaking of which, I still don't know if those borders will definitely be reset this Turn, m'l-rd Nor Yekith...)

May I just say I am not at all happy with this turn of events?

Ya might not worry about domestic things!

I think so, yes. War doesn't have to be fought by armies alone. Undine could flood the lands with tidal waves, you could collapse economies, Mithyaat could make men made with nightmares, Simjem could create earthquakes, O-gon-cho could send her dragons out to burn forests and cities . . .

**sigh**

But there is still so much I haven't done.

Remember that if Pantheon 3.0 is set in Eiran, the Laws you will have Hedra write on the Book of Law may bind the next batch of deities too...

That is good to know.

Astavyastataa Kadna wrote: Ya might not worry about domestic things!

Phbbbbt...!

Trying to make me feel better, huh?

Ignore the domestic problems while my followers, those which survive, are turned out of house and home by an unknown, rampaging, who knows what? Yeah...right.

What to choose to do...

:::arrrgh:::

First of all, I strongly oppose starting over if there is war. Even if there is serious war. We shouldn't be allowed to be gods if our attitude toward the planet and our followers is so cavalier. We shouldn't get to start over when we get bored, or stupid, or whatever. We should live with the consequences of our choices. If anything that happens does not completely destroy Eiran, we should just keep playing. Starting over should not be a safety net.

Nor Yekith wrote:

Bhakti wrote:The deities can decide. No, there's no separating the player from the deity, so the players would be deciding how the game is played.

No, the majority decides how the game is played.

Well, yes. That's one of the more common ways laws are made. Another is that a ruler declares the laws. Hedra is declaring laws, so I guess she's our ruler? She says it is not against the Law to make threats, even specific, horrific ones. But she tells us it is against the Law to act against one who makes such threats. Meaning there will be unpleasant consequences for doing it. After all, if there are not unpleasant consequences for doing something, how can it be said to be against the Law?

But these Laws did not exist before she ascended. Heck, before she ascended it wasn't even against the Law for Yek to invade Bhakti's lands and forcibly kidnap some children. Meaning there were no unpleasant consequences for doing so. No incentive for Yek to make restitution, or return the children. No disincentive to doing it again. How can it be said that it was against the Law? It wasn't. I didn't like it, but was not willing to go to all out war over it, so I let it go. It was a personal matter between two deities.

And if that can no longer be the way things are, then I'd like a say in what the Laws are.

Alright. Honestly? Xar wouldnt allow me to go to war for an "unjustified" cause. To do so would break my own being, and probably strip me Justice. I just want to be allowed to slap Nor around a bit.

Bhakti wrote:Well, yes. That's one of the more common ways laws are made.

Actually, I think reason is.

Bhakti wrote: She says it is not against the Law to make threats, even specific, horrific ones. But she tells us it is against the Law to act against one who makes such threats.

There's a world of a difference between making threats and acting out those threats. If we're going to play a game where threats are reason enough to retaliate, then the consequence is that all conversations will become 'politcally-correct', loving and caring (to use an extreme example). I really think what is at heart is that Bhakti believes Nor will carry out his threats and that he's not prepared. Well, that's life. But he has no reason to break a law.

Bhakti wrote:Heck, before she ascended it wasn't even against the Law for Yek to invade Bhakti's lands and forcibly kidnap some children. Meaning there were no unpleasant consequences for doing so.

That's not my problem. I did what I did knowing there would be consequences, but if you chose not to act because Bhakti would rather hug his enemies, so be it. But it's not my concern what you do.

Bhakti wrote:It wasn't. I didn't like it, but was not willing to go to all out war over it, so I let it go. It was a personal matter between two deities.

In this situation, you made a decision - or we both did. I don't think gods should have laws 'hovering around' with consequences for their breaking. I think it's up to the gods involved to take issue, not act by default. And really, it's more interesting politically for things to go that way than invoking clauses.

Bhakti wrote:And if that can no longer be the way things are, then I'd like a say in what the Laws are.

Everyone has a say, but why should the majority dictate? I don't think any of us play this game to experience a simulation of courts or society. We are here to play Gods.

Balon wrote:I just want to be allowed to slap Nor around a bit.

I really think some players are a bit myopic.

Loremaster wrote:

Balon wrote:I just want to be allowed to slap Nor around a bit.

I really think some players are a bit myopic.

Hang on I gotta.......*lets see....m-y-o-p-i-c......* GAH!

You KNOW it!

I realise my earlier post might sound rude, but its intent was merely to confront an issue. Actually, the laws benefit Nor Yekith greatly, but I forsee major problems.

Don't worry about it. I wasnt annoyed untill I found what myopic meant.

As for the Law, *shrug* I didnt think it would be taken this seriously. I wasnt kidding when I said that I just wanted to pound on Nor. I dont think I'm alone when I say it feels like the Games coming to an end, and I figured this would make a pretty good ending. Whether I "win" or "lose" doesnt really matter to me. I just want to go down fighting.

Balon wrote: I wasnt kidding when I said that I just wanted to pound on Nor.

This is what I don't get - why I wrote 'myopic'. By all means, go ahead. It doesn't worry me, honestly.

Murrin wrote:On Adomorn's Law, I've never really seen the necessity for it. I do feel that Hedra's laws are more restrictive than I would prefer, but there are many ways that the Law can still be worked with as it is.

Xar wrote:Remember that if Pantheon 3.0 is set in Eiran, the Laws you will have Hedra write on the Book of Law may bind the next batch of deities too...

Can I just say, I would greatly prefer it if the next game is run as a 'clean slate'. An entirely new world, no links back to the earlier games. I'd like the opportunity to start fresh.

It all depends on Eiran's situation at the end of the Second Age, of course. But if Eiran survives, I'd rather take it into the Third Age - mostly because now we already have a wealth of history from which I can draw for events and situations, and some players might enjoy reusing their current deities (unless said deities have been removed from the game completely), like what happened to Maeror and Argothoth.
Then again, things are in a state of flux right now - maybe Eiran in the third age will be a clean slate because everyone will have destroyed everything else, and there will be no law left

The only way the 2nd game should end, though, is if there is noone left to play it. I agree with Bhakti on that point. The first ame didn't end because Nephirthos shattered the world--it ended for outside reasons. We were all prepared to carry on after the shattering.

Hmmmm ... what if the Battles end with one god at 1,000 DRP (I know - 20 is max by the rules! ) and all others are at 1 DRP with most of Eiran in ruin?

To me that says ... Deity wins!! *have a beer with player; slap on the back* And IC - AllFather gets pissed ... cleans the slate ON EIRAN ... and we start again!!

Now ... lets say only a couple of deities are 'injured' or even destroyed ... and Eiran is damaged ... but not irreparably so; then I think we could continue.

Make sense?

Murrin wrote:The only way the 2nd game should end, though, is if there is noone left to play it. I agree with Bhakti on that point. The first ame didn't end because Nephirthos shattered the world--it ended for outside reasons. We were all prepared to carry on after the shattering.

That's true.

Murrin wrote:The only way the 2nd game should end, though, is if there is noone left to play it. I agree with Bhakti on that point. The first ame didn't end because Nephirthos shattered the world--it ended for outside reasons. We were all prepared to carry on after the shattering.

:::nodding:::

Agreed. I was still in the shell then, but I remember the players all decided on a restart once the AllFather was able to return to the Game. I seem to recall RL got in the way of the Game for quite awhile right after Eiran was shattered.

Astavyastataa Kadna wrote:Hmmmm ... what if the Battles end with one god at 1,000 DRP (I know - 20 is max by the rules! ) and all others are at 1 DRP with most of Eiran in ruin?

To me that says ... Deity wins!! *have a beer with player; slap on the back* And IC - AllFather gets pissed ... cleans the slate ON EIRAN ... and we start again!!

This is the major difference in your outlook on the Game and mine, cousin. I do not view playing the Game to "win." I understand the need to dominate and score over other deities, but to so overwhelm others in DRP is unneccesary IMO.

Astavyastataa Kadna wrote:Now ... lets say only a couple of deities are 'injured' or even destroyed ... and Eiran is damaged ... but not irreparably so; then I think we could continue.

Make sense?

:::nodding:::

Definitely. Although I must admit, I do look forward to entering a "brighter" age. But, as Mistress of Light, others should not find that surprising...