Kevin's Watch

Cagliostro wrote:

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I just have a suspicion that Locke's dad is not as helpless as he appeared. I think he is probably the leader of the Others. Not Ben. Just a guess, though, but I can't remember if it was said equivocally that Ben is indeed their leader. 2nd in command, maybe...

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This is a tough one for me to accept. Anthony Cooper was a common conman, stealing rich widows fortunes and a kidney from son, and maybe even the Real Sawyer. How does a man like end up being Jacob or in amongst all this? Nah, I can't buy Anthony Cooper as Jacob. Ben seems to be #1 in charge on the scene, reporting only to Jacob. (Biblical Jacob is Ben's father)

No no no.

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Locke's dad is the same as Mr. Eko's brother - a construct of some sort, of a person who is dead. What we learn seeing him in the Other's HQ is that the Other's are "in" with whatever is creating these dopplegangers.

Wayfriend wrote:No no no.

Spoiler

Locke's dad is the same as Mr. Eko's brother - a construct of some sort, of a person who is dead. What we learn seeing him in the Other's HQ is that the Other's are "in" with whatever is creating these dopplegangers.

NONONONO~

Spoiler

Smoky WAS those dopplegangers....the horse, Jack's Dad, Eko's bro...all of them. Locke's Dad, we will find, was kidnapped or brought there against his will before the sub got blown up.

Lockes dad cant of been smoky i think, Smoky cant get past those Barriers to Othersville.

yep...my thought exactly. He is the real mccoy.

Warmark wrote:Lockes dad cant of been smoky i think, Smoky cant get past those Barriers to Othersville.

Two assumptions there that I won't make: that the barriers really work (it didn't stop Jack, Kate, et al) and that the dopplegangers are the same thing (of which there is no evidence).

Wayfriend wrote:

Warmark wrote:Lockes dad cant of been smoky i think, Smoky cant get past those Barriers to Othersville.

Two assumptions there that I won't make: that the barriers really work (it didn't stop Jack, Kate, et al) and that the dopplegangers are the same thing (of which there is no evidence).

They barrier clearly stops Smokie - Juliette says this, and we see it happen. They can switch them off - we see Juliette do this - so i think thats the only way Smokie could get in is by human error, ie someone forgetting to switch them back on after passing through them.

Also i think its pretty clear Smokie was Eko's Brother, and its not much of a strecth to assume he was the rest of the apperitions.

I am not willing to credit Smokey as being Hurley's imaginary friend Dave, nor dripping wet Walt, but, I believe Christian, the horse (maybe a couple of the more cartoonish looking Polar Bears, unless we are supposed to write off the uneven special effects) Sayid's cat, Wemi (That killed Eko) are all Smokey. Spirit Guide Ana Lucia and Spirit Guide Boone as well as the Wemi up on the cliff that helped Eko, I believe are an opposing entity, unless Smokey has a split personality. The Spirit Guides may be related to the Whispers. Anthony Cooper, I believe is real, otherwise, why have the fence to keep Smokey out, if you can control Smokey enough to make it pretend to be Anthony Cooper? As I believe someone on this thread pointed out earlier, did you notice Locke's hand all bandaged up? Pretty good indication he used Daddy as a punching bag, IMHO, an once again, I don't see you being able to do that with Smokey.

Kate, et al got across the Sonic fence by going over, Smokey apparently can "fly" that high, or maybe just doesn't know how high it would need to fly to over the fence.

You guys are weird. Eko sees his brother, runs through the woods, and sees the monster... from that you conclude the brother is the monster. Bizarre. If you chased a rabbit into the woods, and found a pine cone, would you think the rabbit was really a pine cone?

Wayfriend wrote:You guys are weird. Eko sees his brother, runs through the woods, and sees the monster... from that you conclude the brother is the monster. Bizarre. If you chased a rabbit into the woods, and found a pine cone, would you think the rabbit was really a pine cone?

His brother very threateningly said, "You speak to me as if you think I'm your brother", and then demanded he ask for forgiveness for his sins. Then he disappeared, and Smokey played "beat the rag doll against the trees" with him. What other logical assumption could be made from that?

sindatur wrote:

Wayfriend wrote:You guys are weird. Eko sees his brother, runs through the woods, and sees the monster... from that you conclude the brother is the monster. Bizarre. If you chased a rabbit into the woods, and found a pine cone, would you think the rabbit was really a pine cone?

His brother very threateningly said, "You speak to me as if you think I'm your brother", and then demanded he ask for forgiveness for his sins. Then he disappeared, and Smokey played "beat the rag doll against the trees" with him. What other logical assumption could be made from that?

Really Way... and in a prior episode we saw that smoky CONTAINED images of Eko's past. Thereby being able to replicate his brother. Not exactly a leap there.

sindatur wrote:His brother very threateningly said, "You speak to me as if you think I'm your brother", and then demanded he ask for forgiveness for his sins. Then he disappeared, and Smokey played "beat the rag doll against the trees" with him. What other logical assumption could be made from that?

That they are two different things, dude.

Consider, if Eko, after refusing to be penetant, had run through the woods and then died from, say, an airplane falling on him, or running off of a cliff. We would think that the brother apparition arranged that Eko would die to pay for his sins. But we would NOT think that the brother apparition was the airplane or the cliff.

So Eko dies by being attacked by the monster. This, just as easily, could have been something arranged by the brother apparition. They need not be one and the same, they need not even be working on the same team.

And the counter argument for your position is: if they are the same, why did the brother wait for Eko to leave his presence, zip around through the woods to get ahead of him, and then appear in monster guise? Why not just morph right there, squish eko right there? Why the running through the woods, doing it later on? Heck, why even change aspect at all?

I had considered that, and forgot what took me away from that thought. I was thinking that the Smoke monster may just be a mechanical arm, shrouded in smoke, and the apparitions are simply advanced hologram technology, but, people have toughed the things that may be smokey apparitions.

Whether smoky IS the apparation or an extention of the apparition(s) is a fine point. My theory is that smoky and all extensions thereto are technology/spirit remnants of the orginal denizens of the island, predating hanso.

Smokey=swarm of shape changing, mind reading nanobots who don't think to look up to go over a charged force field.

A Gunslinger wrote:Whether smoky IS the apparation or an extention of the apparition(s) is a fine point. My theory is that smoky and all extensions thereto are technology/spirit remnants of the orginal denizens of the island, predating hanso.

I also have another thought. With all the mental energies on the island (Locke in general communing with the island and the whole wishing to walk thing, Locke training Walt in wishing games outcomes and knife throwing, making Boone a man, Rose wishing herself better and "knowing Bernard was still alive, Charlie wishing for his guitar, Claire for her baby to be alive, Desmond time trvelling..) Dispute what you want, there's still Mental energy at work. So...might Smokey be a Geschtalt? (either producing the mental energies tapped into...or living off the others usage of natural phenomena?)

sindatur wrote:

A Gunslinger wrote:Whether smoky IS the apparation or an extention of the apparition(s) is a fine point. My theory is that smoky and all extensions thereto are technology/spirit remnants of the orginal denizens of the island, predating hanso.

I also have another thought. With all the mental energies on the island (Locke in general communing with the island and the whole wishing to walk thing, Locke training Walt in wishing games outcomes and knife throwing, making Boone a man, Rose wishing herself better and "knowing Bernard was still alive, Charlie wishing for his guitar, Claire for her baby to be alive, Desmond time trvelling..) Dispute what you want, there's still Mental energy at work. So...might Smokey be a Geschtalt? (either producing the mental energies tapped into...or living off the others usage of natural phenomena?)

Can't rule it out. Though the healing of Rose and Locke and Sun (infertile no longer?) I think have little to do with internal wishing than some sort of environmental healing property of the island itself. This is why Henry (who was born there if he can be believed) is so fascinated with Locke.

You mean Jin's infertility, he's the one who had the problem, not Sun.

I actually do lean more towards High magnetism being the healing agent. You use magnetic bracelets for arthritis, and cancers are treated with Radioactivity, so why can't EM theoretically be responsible for their healing, but, I have a feelilng that the desire to be cured of their ailments (IE: The power of positive thinking) may also be a contributor. Ben, I have always thought his problem is precisely that he was born there. He has always been in that environment, therefore anything he gets, wouldn't be fixed by the environment, because it grew or whatever, within that environment.

Yeah...Jin... "couple" dyslexia struck me.

Thinking...maybe....but could Locke have been wishing for not paralysis during the plane crash? Right after? Noe, he was as suprised as anyone.

He did temporarily LOSE his new legs right before boone got waxed, but was it his mental state (faith in the island) drive the temporary loss...or was it somethuing external?

Man I dig this show!

Hey hey hey!

Last night's episode was GREAT! I have to say that AS SOON as Sayid showed his continuing distrust of Julianne

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I knew that she was a plant. NEVER NEVER go against Sayid...he is one of those Fox Mulder type characters that is NEVER wrong.

As such I fear greatly for him.

Also, odes anyone think that Jack

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might be brainwashed?

Also,

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if it is all a ruse...was J really afraid of smoky? Are these folks truly unaware of what smoky is? Is smoky perhaps JACOB?