Kevin's Watch

I figured most people would know it was me. Word travels fast around the Pantheon!

Keev, your avatar looks waaaaaaaaaay to pleasurable to represent Pain!

Looks may be decieving and really what is pain but an another expression of pleasure and vice versa. Have you never found the pain pleasure dichotomy?

Reminds me of Slaneesh. Hmm first Nurgle now Slaneesh. Interesting. At least your not a horned demon in bondage gear!

Murrin wrote:Heh. I've been having that problem myself, recently. I'd guessed it was you anyhow.

What gave her away?

Keev Furaha wrote:Looks may be decieving and really what is pain but an another expression of pleasure and vice versa. Have you never found the pain pleasure dichotomy?

Oh sure. Absolutely. But by and large, I prefer the pleasure that is pleasure over the pain that is pleasure. *shrug*

Have you never picked a scab until it bled and found it compelling? Have you never cried with joy yet felt the pain of crying, the tightness of throat, the heat of your eyes, the constriction of your chest? Would you deny yourself the pain that must proceed catharsis? The need for, the meaning of catharsis would be exorcised if there were no pain. The pleasure from that far exceeds any pure pleasure experience you can have for the depth of it is tenfold in comparison. Even in orgasm our faces are not that of joy but of pain and straining and release. Can you deny this?

Tawhiri-Matea expressed this in his dogma of contrasts. I prefer to think of it as merges. It is as simple as that. The way your heart feels when you have seen a long lost friend and have such joy together and yet the sorrow of parting again is imminent. Pain and pleasure are one and the same yet different. I reign with pain for it is the most memorable of the halves of my dichotomy. Pain is the teaching half. If you stick your hand in a fire you will learn that to do so will cause pain and it will teach you not to do so unless you want to feel pain. If you trust with open arms and are wronged by the person you trusted you will learn not to trust so openly. These are the things my followers learn and the more painful the more the lesson is burned into their souls and the more power I feel.

I certainly do not deny it. Truly, pleasure is meaningless without pain. If both did not exist, there would be no word for either. Indeed, there would be neither. If the most "pleasurable" experience was the only experience - the only state of being - it would be meaningless.

It seems to me that pleasure and pain are equally necessary. We would not be complete without both. We would be boring and bored.

But, truly, who chooses pain over pleasure? Pain may be as important as pleasure in life, but they do not have interchangable roles. Yes, pain may be another expression of pleasure, and vice versa. But how many seek pleasure, compared with how many seek pain? And how many seek to find pleasure through pain, compared with how many seek to find pain through pleasure? On the whole, pleasure is sought out; it is a goal. (Some would say the goal.) While pain is usually avoided when possible. It teaches many things, but it is not the (nor the) goal.

Welcome Sister.

Indeed. Welcome sister Keevy!

Thank you for your welcomes my fellow shapers of the fate of Eiran.

Zephyr, why would you seek pleasure when the aftermath is a coming down, a loss, an absense of pleasure that sits on your palette and stews? A loss of the pleasure sought being an expression of pain? The release of pain is a rush of pleasure, the pleasure of exculpation, the pleasure of floating, the pleasure of learning and becoming more than what you were. The pleasure of having been through the pain and won? The power of mastery over the pain is a pleasure that is earned and not given.

The pain and pleasure of mortals and their whimsical imaginative gods is a trivial matter, a mere blemish on the universe and its natural state that is nothing, a peacefully quiet void.

For beings of such apparent might, you sully alot of your time on such pointless endeavors. However it is to be expected from beings whos lives occupy such a short space of time in the eternity that the void hath been. Existence and all the chaos that comes with is a simply temporary state in the greater scheme of the universe. It would do you well to bear this in mind, so you may put your lives to some true use. It is only time before the blemish that is mortals forgets of you and you all be absorbed into the nether, as is the natural state of things. Mortals, despite their pathetically short time wasting space in the nothing, make a good habit of making new gods as they see fit.

But before life there was nothing. Life shall turn to nothing. Nothing is the natural way.

A lesson more valuable than any amount of pain can teach has just been bestowed upon you. Take from it what you will.

Perhaps this is so but you and I cannot exist on the same plane. You are full of yourself and willing to sit back and wait for the world to end. I am living in the world of Eiran and trying to make it so that it can exist and make a mark before you swallow it. Even if you reach your goal of swallowing me and making me non exitstent you will still be bereft of one who could be your companion. ONe who could make you have an understanding of what is beyond the void.

You are more foolish than is immediately apparent.

You refer to The Void as if it is a persona, or has personality,cravings and desires.

Even worse, you talk as if The Nether is a simple god like you.

The void does not desire to envelope all existence. It does not want to swallow all that exists.

The void merely Is.

From the void sprung the one you call the all father. From him came existence as you know it. It is understandable how you could find it hard to comprehend, as an ant views its life to be confined to an ant hill.

There is no evil desires to destroy this world, to make it into a state of nothing. It is merely the course of things to come. Weather or not it happens in your flash's of a life time is irrelevant.

The only reason you are aware of the void is because the people of this planet are growing to understand the true nature of the universe. They are beginning to realize that this world existed before the gods they look up too. They are beginning to become aware that without their belief, the gods are nothing. They are finally starting to see that it is them, not you, that shapes what you are. And they are becoming aware that before time and the all father, there was nothing.

Upon such realizations, believing in mere gods of the elements seems pointless.

So it is their realization of such that allows you to be aware of the void, to be able to think these thoughts that are projecting themselves into your heads now.

The void has no desire to destroy this world. It has no desire to return the universe to nothing. It has no desire to be evil. Because for all of that to happen, one must have desire.

The Void merely is.

No beginning,
No end.
Our mind
is born and dies:
The emptiness of emptiness!
-Ikkyu

one long pure beautiful road of pain
and the beauty of death and no pain
-Ikkyu

So what you are saying is that noting we do is relevant?And no matter what I do it's negated by the void? If that is so then why are we even arguing? the world is lost by your calculationas

The results do not matter. Only the effort.

There is no argument.

Simply thoughts passing unto you. You say you wish to make your mark. Perhaps now you will be more so inclined, realizing there is more to being than you thought. Do what you can while you can.

The void is not an enemy, you are not threatened in anyway, simply enlightened.

Keev Furaha wrote:Zephyr, why would you seek pleasure when the aftermath is a coming down, a loss, an absense of pleasure that sits on your palette and stews?

If so, then

to the Void, Keev Furaha wrote:I am living in the world of Eiran and trying to make it so that it can exist and make a mark before you swallow it.

why seek to have Eiran make a mark, or even exist, if it will only be swallowed?

What matters, the meaning of everything, of every moment, is every moment.

Keev Furaha wrote:A loss of the pleasure sought being an expression of pain?

The absence of pleasure is pain? Hmmm... I can see a case being made for the pain of anguish being the result of a pleasure removed or denied.

Keev Furaha wrote:The release of pain is a rush of pleasure, the pleasure of exculpation, the pleasure of floating, the pleasure of learning and becoming more than what you were. The pleasure of having been through the pain and won? The power of mastery over the pain is a pleasure that is earned and not given.

You are making my case for me. You are saying the pain is a path to pleasure.

Keev, welcome to the Pantheon. The earth understands these merges you speak of for the earth is ever-merging and if it had a voice, it would groan in pleasure and cry in pain at the gratings and foldings of soil and rock, creating new things.

Listen not to the void. It knows nothing but its own self and cannot concieve beyond its own existence.

Such is the nature of of gods focused on self-aggrandization.