Rules and Discussion

[Menolly]

*drops head in hands*

Oy!
More responsibility on top of assigning artisans and craftsmen to positions and organizing the cultural and marketability aspects (at least until Krinn returns to take back the promotion) of the Tournament?

As well as building a clergy for Artistry?

[[Syl]]

So what's your solution?

Anyway, it looks like the council just delegated that authority. I still respond to their wishes, and as you can see in the prophet forum, they can amend those plans as they see fit.

And all this is kind of amusing to me. As I said, there was no magistrate position before I created it, no "heart of Twinsriver" before Gener conceived of it. Everyone else was all 'tournament of fighters' this and 'festival hall' that, focusing externally. I think that allowed me to set the framework of what Twinsriver culture is, and that just because it made sense to me both for a small village mindset and someone seeking justice.

Now you want to simultaneously buy in to that because you can see the advantage but limit me because you think that I might use it against you.

[Menolly]

So what's your solution?

Solution to what in particular?

Anyway, it looks like the council just delegated that authority. I still respond to their wishes, and as you can see in the prophet forum, they can amend those plans as they see fit.

*nod*

I did note that as well.
But, it is not what I was originally told when I inquired about it.

And all this is kind of amusing to me. As I said, there was no magistrate position before I created it, no "heart of Twinsriver" before Gener conceived of it. Everyone else was all 'tournament of fighters' this and 'festival hall' that, focusing externally. I think that allowed me to set the framework of what Twinsriver culture is, and that just because it made sense to me both for a small village mindset and someone seeking justice.

Now you want to simultaneously buy in to that because you can see the advantage but limit me because you think that I might use it against you.

I wouldn't say buy in to it now because I can see the advantage. When Gener did bring it up in the game thread, Laurel questioned him on his concept of what the "heart" of Twinsriver is then and there, sticking to her beliefs it was community pride, but not isolationism and potential xenophobia.

Gener replied he would not be opposed to establishing hostels and other places of welcome "near the gates." No mention was made of placing them outside the gates. Laurel most likely would have protested that concept then and there, if that had been specified.

However, the mentioning of them being put outside the gates, along with the formation of an offensive militia and an expeditionary and reconnaissance force all at the same time without any prior notice was shocking. And as far as the offensive militia goes, probably one I misunderstood. But for all three to happen at once, especially after having been told things may slow down in-game, caught me totally by surprise and I responded as felt right for Laurel.

As far as the potential of using something against me --don't we all have that potential towards one another in one way or another? As far as Gener goes, I feel no one citizen of Twinsriver should have absolute authority over another, unless it is deemed such by ALL. As was shown, that may not be the case after all, but it is what I was told is the case privately, prior to the most recent exchange.

[[Syl]]

Solution to what in particular?

Anything. All you have said is what you don't like, essentially telling me not to do what I'm doing (which is protecting the town and following the elders wishes). I haven't interfered with you or yours, so... Like I said, if you want to propose a third way, that's cool. If you just want to kibbitz...

First, you say we should be more welcoming. So I put in the idea of visitor centers. Then you say both that we should have the visitors centers but that we don't need them (taking away business from the inns, supposedly). Now you want them inside or in the walls. Well, you lost that one.

I wouldn't say buy in to it now because I can see the advantage. When Gener did bring it up in the game thread, Laurel questioned him on his concept of what the "heart" of Twinsriver is then and there, sticking to her beliefs it was community pride, but not isolationism and potential xenophobia.

No matter how you slice it, it was reactive. You guys were doing your thing with outsiders; I took the opposite route. Now you want a piece of that too.

Did Gener have a problem with the tournament and festival hall? Yes (his brother was killed by a stranger and the other prophets invite a bunch more?! Of course he's not going to like that.). Did he whine to the elders? No. What he did do is propose an alternate route: allow for the visitors and for growth but protect the village. Laurel may perceive that as xenophobia, but Gener didn't ask for the town's identity to become one of famous fighters or artisans, either.

Gener replied he would not be opposed to establishing hostels and other places of welcome "near the gates." No mention was made of placing them outside the gates.

No mention of it was made of them being in, and considering the tone of Gener's speech...

Laurel most likely would have protested that concept then and there, if that had been specified.

Laurel seemed more interested in the building of the festival hall than the wall. And considering I said from the start that the details would be up to Brand (and you talk to Brand all the time), I'm surprised that everybody keeps asking Gener. Of course he's going to answer the way he does. To be honest, I really don't care if the center is inside or outside. I do care about using it as a wedge issue.

The rest I can't really help you with. Just following orders, and you see how questioning them went.

[Goatkiller666]

So, as a player, it sounds to me like Syl pulled a nifty coup, and Menolly is kind of put out about it. I say, props to Syl for pulling a nifty coup.

I'm not sure how I feel about Krinn being lumped in with Laurel, as far as us guys doing our thing. While factually correct, the wording implies perhaps more unification of plan than really exists. I agree we were all three focusing on external things, but it was really more like Krinn and Laurel coming up with parallel (and not mutually exclusive) plans that rode on Azver's coat-tails. We are not a bloc, though we are all moving in the same direction at the moment.

The difference, I'm sure, is mostly irrelevant from Gener's point of view.

[[Syl]]

Thanks for the props, Goat. Didn't mean to say you guys were working together, just that you were all going an opposite direction. Since Gener wasn't an artisan or fighter, and chicken farmers don't have much need to travel around, there was no angle for me there. Seeking justice, my only other option was to go Batman, but since there wasn't a whole lot of crime in Twinsriver to support a superhero and everybody else had the fighter thing pretty well covered...

[Goatkiller666]

As luck would have it, I've already claimed the Batman role in Twinsriver. I lack the cool backstory, and this most recent turn will probably strengthen my impulse not to be a combattant... seeing as how I just got... well... there's no use spoiling Krinn's reputation as a junior bad-ass.

As a side note, has anybody else read the DC Comics mini-series Kingdom Come? Shows Batman as an old man, in a full body mechanical brace thing, 'cause he got stomped pretty bad years before. He's got these super Bat robots who patrol Gotham, and pretty much keep it like a 1970s Communist Government. I can totally see Gener going that direction, if we had robots.

[Fist and Faith]

Kingdom Come is awesome. One of the Must Reads.

[Menolly]

No matter how you slice it, it was reactive. You guys were doing your thing with outsiders; I took the opposite route. Now you want a piece of that too.

Well, yeah! I'm not going to deny that.

You've GM'd three games I play(ed), and have played alongside me in at least five. You know that except for maybe Leaf and Niggle, I have zero originality in my style of play at all. Everything I do is in reaction to something thrown at me or what other players do. Otherwise I haven't the slightest idea what to do next in a game; just look at Niggle/Lily. I feel I came up with a pretty decent back story for her, but that was it. She pretty much petered out completely in game.

However, I do protest the thought that Festival Hall is strictly for outsiders. The original concept as the council saw it may have been for the tournament, and housing outsiders to come watch the fights; but that has totally been changed, since the fighters don't want to be confined within an arena. Festival Hall is precisely for building community pride within Twinsriver. It will be a place to showcase the best our citizens and visitors have to offer each other. It is the start of a cultural center, for our shining beacon on the hill...

And considering I said from the start that the details would be up to Brand (and you talk to Brand all the time), I'm surprised that everybody keeps asking Gener.

To be honest, all I have heard Brand has been working on is the gates; if he has done more than that on the wall he has not shared it with me. Whereas Laurel has assigned architects, builders, masons, painters, and any and all other craftsmen to the wall, as they all look to Artistry to enhance and improve their own gifts.

Yet I still have no real detail regarding the wall itself, other than a slight description of the gates. Word that the walls of outer houses are being incorporated in to the wall was news to me. I truly have not heard a thing regarding the details of what Artistry's craftsmen have been doing. Just that all has been progressing at an amazing pace with extreme safety records and impeccable craftsmanship, thanks to Artistry's blessing on all projects of such a nature.

[[Syl]]

You've GM'd three games I play(ed), and have played alongside me in at least five.

Then you should know not to get in my way.

You know that except for maybe Leaf and Niggle, I have zero originality in my style of play at all.

And I always say that originality is overrated. I don't mind you taking a cue. Just don't cramp my style.

However, I do protest the thought that Festival Hall is strictly for outsiders. The original concept as the council saw it may have been for the tournament, and housing outsiders to come watch the fights; but that has totally been changed, since the fighters don't want to be confined within an arena. Festival Hall is precisely for building community pride within Twinsriver. It will be a place to showcase the best our citizens and visitors have to offer each other. It is the start of a cultural center, for our shining beacon on the hill...

Cool.

Yet I still have no real detail regarding the wall itself, other than a slight description of the gates.

Probably because details don't exist and are, in my mind, largely inconsequential. Honestly, I find RPing about it wearying, and I imagine the GM feels the same way. The only reason I said to build upon the existing walls, if you want to know, is because that's how Rome's walls were built.

[Menolly]

You've GM'd three games I play(ed), and have played alongside me in at least five.

Then you should know not to get in my way.

bah
The sheriff can be tough, but I have found generally his bark is worse than his bite.
He's basically a big lap dog.
...I'll just keep that between you and me though.

Just don't cramp my style.

Whose cramping your style? I'm playing off it, but mostly to generate interaction. For me, as I said when this game was first proposed, playing a mortal is way easier. I hope the game thread remains hopping.

The only reason I said to build upon the existing walls, if you want to know, is because that's how Rome's walls were built.

Interesting.

Doesn't mean it's right for those who live and would probably take shelter during an attack in those buildings...

[[Syl]]

... but I have found generally his bark is worse than his bite.

Oh no you didn't!

*counts on fingers* I've severely messed up Mox (killed a prophet and wiped out a couple cities), Avastaya Kadna (some warping creatures mauled by Antovar and stomped at the Battle of Megiddo), and Bel (imprisoned in an iron maiden). Hell, I would've seriously messed up Nephirthos in Pantheon 1 if Xar hadn't delayed my tsunami by three turns (during which time Neph was pumping up his first worldbreaking). Even Velt got testy with some vampires and some copyright infringement from Serloth.

In short...

Whose cramping your style?

I'm telling you that you are. Which is fine, I could go with a little strife. I just don't think you'd like it as much as I do. Simjen may have more years than Gener (you guys have no idea how many), but Gener has enough crotchety for two old men.

Doesn't mean it's right for those who live and would probably take shelter during an attack in those buildings...

Better than the attack coming through the front door, don't you think? Unless you want to put your PP and resources where your mouth is (added the resources 'cause it just sounded gross without that much of a buffer) making a better wall?

[Menolly]

... but I have found generally his bark is worse than his bite.

Oh no you didn't!

...says the player who agreed to cleanse cho via holy flame and offered Simjen and Hedra's daughter as a character option to be played for the third age of Pantheon before I fully decided to bring cho back.

Doesn't mean it's right for those who live and would probably take shelter during an attack in those buildings...

Unless you want to put your PP and resources where your mouth is (added the resources 'cause it just sounded gross without that much of a buffer) making a better wall?

What a great idea!
I never can come up with enough uses for Laurel's PPs so far...
...unsure how effective even that will be, after the current round of RPing in the game thread, though. As I said from the start, I expect Laurel's stance regarding the welcome centers and gardens to negatively affect her PPs, unless there are other "hippies" in the village. Although I have found most artisans to fall in to the "liberal" camp. Might as well include her opinion on the wall...

[Goatkiller666]

+10pts for the Fight Club quote.

And while Krinn has put his own money where Laurel's PP is... or whatever we're talking about now... I'm curious how things would work out if he and Gener were to go head to head. 'Cause I've never actually played against you before.

[Menolly]

+10pts for the Fight Club quote.

Is that what that was?

*zoom-zoom*

[[Syl]]

Don't get me wrong. I'm good to those who are good to me ('but when I'm bad I'm even better').

We should probably clear out the competition first, Goat.

[Menolly]

pheh.
Hopefully that's not needed in this game.

Laurel and Gener strike me as similar to Hillel and Shammai in regards to the method of lighting Hanukkah candles. Or even the over all philosophies of Plato and Aristotle. Both aiming for the same goal, but taking totally different approaches in attaining it.

No reason why the different approaches can't build a stronger community, nu?

[Goatkiller666]

You see them as competition. I see them as vassals in my secret war against the world.

Oh, and I figured out a good defensive reason to have a recon unit. Two turns ago, this other village made the mistake of attacking the representatives of Twinsriver while they were out being nice to people. They even tied up Elder Whethersby. Now that whole village has been killed.

Genocide: the ultimate deterrent to attacking us.

P.S. -> different perspectives = at least one person is wrong.

[Menolly]

Oh, and I figured out a good defensive reason to have a recon unit. Two turns ago, this other village made the mistake of attacking the representatives of Twinsriver while they were out being nice to people. They even tied up Elder Whethersby. Now that whole village has been killed.

Genocide: the ultimate deterrent to attacking us.

ick
Please, let's not go there...
*shudder*

[Goatkiller666]

I went there. It's done. Now, all that's left is to spread the word that anyone who f---s with Twinsriver will suffer the same fate.

And this was a village that even large towns avoided. And I even used Azver and Laurel to help me do it. Thanks for that, by the way. Great teamwork exhibited by everyone.