Kevin's Watch

I believe in three out comes.

1. There is a God. Defined not by the bible as a Christian God but something akin a state of being that is aware of you in death and has dominion. All religions I would imagine would be tossed to the wind or held onto tightly out of fear once you go over and get the truth of the matter first hand.

2. There is Void. You were not aware of time's passage before your birth and in death it will be the same. So living each day to the fullest seems not a bad idea considering the final outcome.

3. There is no God, yet your conscious mind continues and much like this world you are relatively on your own. The serious question would be then are we still subjective of the laws of the universe or are separate from them? Meaning if as a soul ventured to close to a black hole would it suffer total obliteration in the event horizon or not?

So basically for me that is what it boils down to on the death bed and finding the courage to face each possible outcome. I don't know what happens after the final act of death and I tend to doubt anyone who says they do, no matter how much someone purports otherwise. I guess we'll all just have to find out on our own.

The Belief o matic broke when I tried it.

I believe that a loving God created us, but wanted us to have freedom, rather than be automatons.

We chose to turn away from Him. But because he loves, he redeems us. Since there was no one else equal to the job-- or no one he was willing to do it for him-- he came to earth himself 2000 years ago to do it once, for all time.

I experience this God daily in my life, thoughts, feelings and interactions. There was a time I did not believe, and I walked in a darkness that contrasts starkly with after I came to believe. Therefore I believe even more strongly with joy.

I believe this kind of life is available to anyone who accepts the gift called Jesus Christ.

Amen to that Deer

I beleive I will have another scotch.

I believe that there is SOMETHING more than science can encompass, the wonder and majesty of all that is has a divine origination.

The exact nature of that divinity I'm not sure about...I have had experiences that prove (to me...these are SUBJECTIVE personal experiences, cannot be duplicated on demand, not controllable, so they are not REAL proof) that there is a spiritual world out there...but these experiences have not been unequivocally SUPPORTING one faith while REFUTING all others. I see it as being like the three blind men describing the elephant. I'm not saying any faith is right....nor am I saying any faith is wrong. I'm looking for "right for me". I believe when you practice your faith, it should exult you, lift you up, fill you with wonder, and joy, embrace you, make your soul sing. I have not found that, yet. I have Wiccan friends, who do ritual and feel that. I have a Christian friend, who feel that when reading his Bible. I had a Muslim friend, who felt that everytime he prayed facing Mecca or read the Qu'ran.

Seven Words wrote:I believe when you practice your faith, it should exult you, lift you up, fill you with wonder, and joy, embrace you, make your soul sing.

Hallelujah!

Oh Seven Words, that was an excellent post.

I truly hope you find what you seek. Blessings to you.

I suppose I'm still an atheist, though I do hope a benevolent creator does exist and this wasn't all some random explosion; otherwise there's no hope for a dialogue or existence after death.

But even there, we can still overlay our spirituality with scientific inquiry and perhaps create our own eternity, either through immortality or by evading the death of the universe (perhaps going to other universes, if they exist). Though every species has died and we might well die too, I earnestly believe we won't. We have the best chance of any species to transcend the bonds of this planet, as well as the heat death of the universe. We don't know our value, but we really should. I believe sentient life is the highest form one can achieve in this universe, and to see the vehemence with which life struggles to live only reaffirms that. I hope, no matter if it takes forever and there are no answers, that we remain a living order in a sea of black.

Seven Words wrote:I believe that there is SOMETHING more than science can encompass, the wonder and majesty of all that is has a divine origination.

And science doesn't try to encompass inner emotions of love or piety. Religion is there for the mind's ease, or poetry, or loving someone or looking out on nature or watching a film. All of this. Majesty is an inner creation; cause and effect, the laws we see about us, are objective objects we merely collate and then decide they are wonderful. We did have a creator, perhaps a Big Bang, a deity or something we don't know yet or might never know. I cannot choose, personally, a human-worshiped deity, as I find it convenient they resemble us, and there are too many religions claiming themselves the true one, asking for your utter fealty. When I see so many claimants I believe A), they're all lying, or B), one's telling the truth.

Let's say, for argument, that Christianity is the one. It's true. God has, essentially, thrown your soul into a potluck. You might be born in India, Southeast Asia, Africa, etc. You'll most likely be raised into another religion and die a non-Christian. Why would God do that? Why would He put you in the middle of an inescapable social contract and societal upbringing with a heretical society that likely has a gridlock on billions of non-Christian souls? What is the logic in that? To me religion is simple evolution, which is why they evolved separately in separate parts of the world and have token similarities, just as we have many great similarities to other creatures on this planet (genetically, physically, brain, blood, tissue, eyes, etc); we've evolved in tandem with them.

Anyway, these are my ruminations and the refining of my own beliefs, not directed at Seven or anybody else.

I believe God created Heaven, where we all live.
I believe in the evolution of life on Earth and the continuing development of human emotion that elevates the intellect of humankind.
I believe if a person where to change the physical structure of an object into something else merely by touching it with the tip of a finger, then that person would be ridiculed, despised, and outcast.
I believe Thomas Covenant; he helped me to understand the paradox between Heaven and Earth.

Seven Words wrote:I believe that there is SOMETHING more than science can encompass, the wonder and majesty of all that is has a divine origination.

The exact nature of that divinity I'm not sure about...I have had experiences that prove (to me...these are SUBJECTIVE personal experiences, cannot be duplicated on demand, not controllable, so they are not REAL proof) that there is a spiritual world out there...but these experiences have not been unequivocally SUPPORTING one faith while REFUTING all others. I see it as being like the three blind men describing the elephant. I'm not saying any faith is right....nor am I saying any faith is wrong. I'm looking for "right for me". I believe when you practice your faith, it should exult you, lift you up, fill you with wonder, and joy, embrace you, make your soul sing. I have not found that, yet. I have Wiccan friends, who do ritual and feel that. I have a Christian friend, who feel that when reading his Bible. I had a Muslim friend, who felt that everytime he prayed facing Mecca or read the Qu'ran.

The things I think about these views in general -
First of all, the elephant - One thing that people frequently forget in the elephant analogy - that there actually IS an elephant that IS multi-facted, and there may be someone who is not blind, but actually sees and describes the whole elephant.

Secondly, on exultation - I reject that idea (that you ought to necessarily experience certain feelings), Honestly, feelings come and go. The shift in the 20th century from marriages based on promises to be kept for life regardless of how you feel to those based on...how you feel is an example of the fallacy of depending on feelings for anything.

"If we wish to be rational, not now and then, but constantly, we must pray for the gift of faith, for the power to go on believing not in the teeth of reason but in the teeth of lust and terror and jealousy and boredom and indifference that which reason, authority, or experience, or all three, have once delivered to us for truth."

Lewis, "The Problem of Pain"
This is where the rational mind comes in (to an extent, with an awareness of its limitations) - when our feelings fail us. The thing that has armored me well in my own experience of faith has been being wary of trying to become a "factory of feelings", of feeling a need to feel or produce feelings.

I believe my shirt is wearing thin

All I know is that I can't believe this is not butter!

Christian for me, always have been, always will be.

Science can answer to the truth of Christianity, Ask the archeologists

THH wrote:Science can answer to the truth of Christianity, Ask the archeologists

Now where is Kinslaughterer when we need him?

Science does not answer to the "truth" of biblical creation. So much I can tell you. But if you are interested, go check out the "What is evolution thread" in the think tank.

Beliefomatic got me this
Your Top 3 Faith Match Profiles Are:
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Neo-Pagan (93%)
3. Secular Humanism (86%)

Ananda wrote:Beliefomatic got me this
Your Top 3 Faith Match Profiles Are:
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Neo-Pagan (93%)
3. Secular Humanism (86%)

If you'd like to see how well you compare with others who've tried the Belief-o-matic try this thread.

u.

I feel that despite common thoughts, science and religion are not incompatible. I also feel that we knew more on this kind of thing before we got as "smart" and "advanced as we did. I mean, wolves don't nuke other packs, right? But we, the "civilized" and "enlightened", the "dominant" species, we do. Even though we have a whole lot of reasons not to. Maybe, honestly, the other species just don't think it's worth their time or effort to correct us. Anyways, stuff had to come from somewhere, right? So there must be something god-ish out there. Even if it's only the universe itself.
Interesting and semi-related tidbit. We know we live. We know we think. But biologically, there is no difference from a person that thinks as compared to those rare people who are born not thinking. Scientifically, there's no difference. But we know there is a difference. Odd how our ability to ask this question is somehow not explained by the science we all see everyday. Seems like science has some holes to me. Anyways... Deist, I'd say. Keep it simple. I can't seem to get behind the whole benevolent and caring thing. If anything, I'd say God made us so he could have a good laugh as we frigged up all the gifts he gave us. Besides, the whole "seven days' things... Days are relative. God's idea of "days" might be a few dozen millennium. Who knows? We made up the word days, so how do we know we aren't just assuming his seven days was only 168 hours.

My problem is that I do not know WHAT to believe. I am wishy-washy.

Then don't believe anything.

--A

Wow. I was so out there, I killed the thread for... (3-6-) 9 whole months. Is that impressive, or sad? LOL