President Trump

[Gaius Octavius]

Even Obama recently spoke out against the cult of 'woke' that the current Dem contenders are pandering to.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/77491821 ... cally-woke

Now watch him be accused of being a white nationalist or something.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

First proposition: If you oppose Democrats, until such time as there is a viable alternative to the existing two-party dynamic, you are at least tacitly approving Republican candidates and positions. Again, there isn't a viable alternative at this point.

There is not going to be a real viable third party in my lifetime. I have already made my peace with this fact, but I will still vote Libertarian whenever possible because someone has to take a stand against the False Dichotomy. There is some overlap between "Democrat positions" and "Libertarian positions", but these days there is more overlap between Libertarian and Republican positions because far too many Democrats are proud to support, openly, socialist policies which will wind up making people less free. That is why I oppose them.

Second proposition (and in-line with Brinn's points): Until such time as Republicans take a clear-eyed look at where we are and how we got here, remaining in lockstep behind Trump is going to be an increasingly marginal position. Yes, he might manage to get re-elected through the sheer incompetence / extremes of the opposition, but who believes he will cease to self-destruct in a second term?

If Trump wins a second term--which seem very likely at this point in time--then he will wind up being more of an asshole because he will enjoy lame duck stauts.

I'm not offended by much, but damn he offends me.

Trump puts ketchup on fine steak. Ketchup. On steak.

I don't care who you, that's is gross and disrespectful to the steak.

Now watch him be accused of being a white nationalist or something.

Go check that thread about where the "okay" sign is supposed to be signal of white nationalism. I put up a picture of Obama flashing that sign, so he is already a white nationalist.

edit/add: apparently the whistleblower has been named publicly; I will have to find confirmation of this later. From what I heard on the radio, he worked in the Obama Administration and was part of the process which got the whole "Russian collusion" meme going way back in 2016, so this guy has been looking for a reason to nail Trump to the wall for years. In other words, the whistleblower is full of shit and suffers from Orange Man Bad Syndrome, which isn't surprising.

[wayfriend]

I'm largely conservative and I'm astounded that so many republicans are willing to defend this fool.

As it happens I was reading an article today about how people get sucked into the white supremacy movement. It seems to me, after listening to what former members have said, that it's this simple: everyone wants to be the coolest person in the gang by going a little more all-out than the next guy. So we have people racing to be the biggest promoter of racism, not so much because of the end goal, but because they want to be the best at something. And they're not much good at anything else.

So, while I don't think anyone's end-goal is complete corruption of the united states, creation of a dictatorship, and destruction of democracy, I think that they do want to be the must-audacious, hardest-to-refute bullshit-spewer in whatever little pond that they live in. Because whatever little crumb of fame they get among those they consider to be their kind is all they have to live on.

Defending Trump is their Mount Everest.

[wayfriend]

Tim Morrison, the top Russia and Europe adviser on President Donald Trump's National Security Council, told House impeachment investigators that he was advised by then-White House official Fiona Hill to stay away from the parallel Ukraine policy being pursued by Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, according to a source familiar with his Thursday testimony.

So, shadow foreign policy.

One difference Morrison had from Taylor's account was when Taylor testified that Morrison had relayed to him that Trump told Sondland he wanted Zelensky to "go to a microphone" and announce an investigation into the Bidens and the 2016 election.

But in describing his conversation with Taylor, Morrison said that Sondland indicated it would have been sufficient for Trump if the Ukrainian prosecutor general announced the investigations he sought, according to one source. [link]

It was all about saying there was an investigation. After that it didn't matter.

Why twist Ukraine's arm, and then be satisfied by a simple announcement, when Ukraine is known to have corruption issues? This is practically begging them to have an investigation in name only. This is practically begging them to be corrupt. This explains the former Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch when she was complaining how Giuliani's work was at odds with her anti-corruption efforts. Which got her fired.

The following news item also makes a lot more sense in this light:

Of Course Trump Got Ukraine Policy Advice from Russia and Hungary

Trump's conversations with Putin, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban and others reinforced his perception of Ukraine as a hopelessly corrupt country - one that Trump now also appears to believe sought to undermine him in the 2016 U.S. election, the officials said ... But their disparaging depictions of Ukraine reinforced Trump's perceptions of the country and fed a dysfunctional dynamic in which White House officials struggled to persuade Trump to support the fledgling government in Kiev instead of exploiting it for political purposes, officials said. [link]

[Hashi Lebwohl]

As it happens I was reading an article today about how people get sucked into the white supremacy movement. It seems to me, after listening to what former members have said, that it's this simple: everyone wants to be the coolest person in the gang by going a little more all-out than the next guy.

How ironic, because this is exaclty how Democrats act these days, trying to "out-socialist" each other and one-upping each other in seeing how far to the Left they can go before people give them weird looks.

One--and only one--person who had access to the transcript of the phone call with Zelensky had the heebie-jeebies over it and decided to go tell mommy. Everyone else looked at it from a more mature point of view and found nothing wrong whatsoever. That says a lot about the whistleblower. The impeachment inquiry will have to prove that Trump violated some law by somehow pressuring Ukraine and, truthfully, even Alex Jones would have a hard time putting that conspiracy theory together.

Still, your comparision of civil versus criminal hearings has merit. The impeachment inquiry--and possible vote, if they ever finally get around to it--is the civil portion of the process, where the bar for "guilt" is pretty low and they will likely be able to make all sorts of things stick to Trump. The actual trial in the Senate--the part of the process that actually matters--is the criminal portion; the bar for needing to prove guilt will be much higher and not even the most risk-tolerant Las Vegas bookie would give odds on Trump being removed.

In other words, bring on the impeachment in the House so the Senate can hold a quick up-or-down vote and keep Trump in office.

Today is 31 October 2019--Halloween, for those of you who keep track of these things--and Trump has not yet been impeached.

[Skyweir]

To be fair you could apply that same filter to Trump lol

He wants to out do and undo his predecessors ... well particularly Obama. He sees himself as the biggest badass, the cleverest savviest negotiator, the one and only ... the bestest there is.

In fact he seems to be pushing all sorts of envelopes to see what more he can get away with.

And I guess you can apply that test to any political or social agenda you have.

There are plenty of Dems who arent going all out socialist lol and coming from my perspective purely ... the stuff your Dems may claim as ... socialist ... is social democracy in my book ... which is NOT socialIST ... its positive social policy period. Here healthcare is accessible to anyone needing it whether you have private health insurance or not.

We have rolled back on education but all educational institutions... including University education WAS free when I left school.

Alas things change but ... still costs are manageable.

[Gaius Octavius]

Well, 70-90% tax has been proposed by current Dems and people like AOC. That's pretty crazy.

Remember, we went to war with Britain over 4% taxes.


What has been proposed by Bernie Sanders is basically health insurance for everyone at the cost of very high taxes (and I believe he was the one that wanted 90% taxes on the rich). If you're like most middle class people, you already have good health insurance that your job provides with your employment. Effectively this means LESS MONEY in everyone's pocket, which of course won't ever go down well with your average hard-working American.

It leaves people worse off than before (the majority) even if it helps the poorest of society.

I have had the great privilege of never having to work a day in my life. I could never imagine myself working in a cubicle from 8-5, doing sales, or anything like that. Hats off to those that do that kind of work for a living. I'd hate to do that kind of boring shit and have to give the vast majority of my pay towards taxes.

Ironically, I will probably be one of those people getting taxed 90% if these policies ever come to pass in America. That's a grave insult to 15 years worth of education, 8-hour board exams, and years of crippling depression; sacrifice of my physical health; and insane amounts of stress. Not to mention dealing with litigious assholes.

[Skyweir]

70 to 90 percent tax rate is untenable and not a little crazy .. not sure how much tax they pay in the Scandinavian countries .. re their social Democracies but I doubt its that level at all ... perhaps 35 percent top end ... and they provide their citizens far more social services than you are we do.

Corporate taxes are high though ... topping out around 25 to 30 percent.

We pay about 30 percent taxes ... but to us its our norm.

[Zarathustra]

I'm largely conservative and I'm astounded that so many republicans are willing to defend this fool.

As it happens I was reading an article today about how people get sucked into the white supremacy movement. It seems to me, after listening to what former members have said, that it's this simple: everyone wants to be the coolest person in the gang by going a little more all-out than the next guy. So we have people racing to be the biggest promoter of racism, not so much because of the end goal, but because they want to be the best at something. And they're not much good at anything else.

So, while I don't think anyone's end-goal is complete corruption of the united states, creation of a dictatorship, and destruction of democracy, I think that they do want to be the must-audacious, hardest-to-refute bullshit-spewer in whatever little pond that they live in. Because whatever little crumb of fame they get among those they consider to be their kind is all they have to live on.

Defending Trump is their Mount Everest.

You know, you could just admit that you don't understand it, as Brinn does. Ignorance or lack of understanding isn't necessarily shameful. You could stop long before you reach the territory of insulting people whom you don't know.

Isn't it possible that people might actually agree with Trump? Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it's not true. I think it's batshit crazy that people agree with AOC, Sanders, or even voted for Hillary, but you don't see me calling millions of people "deplorables," which is what your post is a version of.

Saying that Trump doesn't deserve to be impeached for this isn't the same as trying to be the biggest bullshit-spewer to impress others because my life has no meaning. I'm extremely happy. I'm up for a huge promotion at work, I've gotten serious with a beautiful, intelligent, successful woman with tits like a teenager (yes, I said it; you don't know her so who cares ). I couldn't be happier. Life has never been better.

Next theory . . . ?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Isn't it possible that people might actually agree with Trump? Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it's not true.

People who suffer from Orange Man Bad Syndrome cannot fathom any reason why anyone would ever dare agree with, or support, Trump.

Everything which has transpired to date has been for one reason and one reason only: Hillary lost. The way our brains are wired causes us, as a species and as individuals, to seek a reason why something happens and there is no immediately identifiable cause. All the polls and talking heads were telling people for months that Hillary had it in the bag so when the election results came in it was a shock. In fact, OMB sufferers are still having a mild case of PTSD because it was such an emotionally distressing event. Anyway, because we need a reason to explain "why" they have come up with "Russian collusion" and now "pressuring Ukraine". They even tried Stormy Daniels, which was weird. Every tactic tried thus far has failed, hence impeachment.

Sadly, impeachment will fail, as well, and then it will be early 2020 and the Democrats will realize that they have wasted the previous 6 months trying to impeach him instead of working to campaign for re-election.

[wayfriend]

I'm extremely happy.

You spend an inordinate amount of your life tracking down every post I write - in every thread, in every forum - just to say say I am wrong, and in a way that suggests I am morally bankrupt. (Like now!) And you find satisfaction in doing this. How sick you are.

So "I am happy" doesn't pass the sniff test. Bullies are people who are dealing with inadequacy issues.

[TheFallen]

Bullies are people who are dealing with inadequacy issues.

I see...

So what personality disorder are those claiming eternal victimhood suffering from? And especially those who continuously claim that much persecuted status in an effort to obviate the need of taking any responsibility at all for their own deliberately inflammatory, unjustified, partisan-dripping and insultingly ad hominem comments which they invariably attempt to present as "fact"?

You were right recently, Ex... but then again I was right years ago too. Some people's MOs never change.

[Zarathustra]

I'm extremely happy.

You spend an inordinate amount of your life tracking down every post I write - in every thread, in every forum - just to say say I am wrong, and in a way that suggests I am morally bankrupt. (Like now!) And you find satisfaction in doing this. How sick you are.

So "I am happy" doesn't pass the sniff test. Bullies are people who are dealing with inadequacy issues.

Buddy, you're the one calling me sick, troll, bully, etc. I haven't called you morally bankrupt, I said that you could have stopped before insulting people. Your signature itself is a judgment. Every post you make is a condemnation of other people. I'm just having fun.

Your post is caricature, exaggeration, and possibly paranoid. Your points are not literally true. Like Adam Schiff, you make up shit to make political opponents look bad. I may spend too much time on the Watch, but Mr Black you've got a higher post rate than this Kettle. I don't track down every one of your posts in every forum. Everyone can see that I spend most of my time here. And I don't, for instance, troll threads you've created (do you even start threads?) and post off-topic bullshit over and over against your explicit and repeated wishes, as you did in my Thought Experiment thread.

No one is bullying you. It's called debate, Wayfriend. God, we've been over this so many times. I'm polite to you until you are not to me. As I've said before, you'll get exactly as much respect as you give. You should try it as an experiment some time. Hey, you might have a chance to prove me wrong!
Wouldn't you like that!

Stop making it personal.
Stop making it personal.
Stop making it personal.
Can you?
Stop making it personal.
Are you even able?
Stop making it personal.
Can you even try?
Just stop.

I will continue to challenge you when I think you are wrong and I won't let this passive aggressive, ad hominem bullshit stop me.

I couldn't care less if you think I'm happy.

[SoulBiter]

Isn't it possible that people might actually agree with Trump? Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it's not true.

People who suffer from Orange Man Bad Syndrome cannot fathom any reason why anyone would ever dare agree with, or support, Trump.

Everything which has transpired to date has been for one reason and one reason only: Hillary lost. The way our brains are wired causes us, as a species and as individuals, to seek a reason why something happens and there is no immediately identifiable cause. All the polls and talking heads were telling people for months that Hillary had it in the bag so when the election results came in it was a shock. In fact, OMB sufferers are still having a mild case of PTSD because it was such an emotionally distressing event. Anyway, because we need a reason to explain "why" they have come up with "Russian collusion" and now "pressuring Ukraine". They even tried Stormy Daniels, which was weird. Every tactic tried thus far has failed, hence impeachment.

Sadly, impeachment will fail, as well, and then it will be early 2020 and the Democrats will realize that they have wasted the previous 6 months trying to impeach him instead of working to campaign for re-election.

Orange Man Bad and Trump Derangement Syndrome. Interchangeable terms. I find it humorous that the Democrats/liberals dislike President Trump so much that they will do anything... anything at all to ensure he is removed from office and not allowed a second term. They have that dressed up as impeachment. But if they were truly American, they would let the voters decide in a year. But we cant be allowed to think for ourselves or vote for the "wrong person". So they try to stack the deck in their favor. It's going to backfire in a big way on election day.

And since Hashi didnt say it yet......Today is November 1, 2019 and Trump has not yet been impeached.

[[Syl]]

Heh. Good to see you, Brinn. Like me, you must be looking in every now and then, thinking, "Oh, there's no way they can defend this." Followed by, "Nope. Looks like they can."

And every time I look in here, it's like walking into my son's room. This is how you guys want to deport yourselves? I would be embarrassed if people knew I hung out here, much less that I was a regular once.

Yes, yes. I know where the door is. I'll see myself out.

[Zarathustra]

Heh. Good to see you, Brinn. Like me, you must be looking in every now and then, thinking, "Oh, there's no way they can defend this." Followed by, "Nope. Looks like they can."

And every time I look in here, it's like walking into my son's room. This is how you guys want to deport yourselves? I would be embarrassed if people knew I hung out here, much less that I was a regular once.

Yes, yes. I know where the door is. I'll see myself out.

Why don't you show us how it's done? You could, you know, make a substantive argument, rather than doing a drive-by character assassination. I don't see the point of dropping in merely to talk shit about us. If that's all you have to say, why pretend that you're too good to hang out here? Seems like you'd fit right in.

Back on topic: what precisely do you think we can't defend? Why don't you or Brinn make specific criticisms, rather than blanket critical statements? How about you defend your own points, rather than mock our alleged defense of Trump?

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+


Julia Davis @JuliaDavisNews | Twitter

[SoulBiter]

Seems this is not new to the US...during
Obama's time in office.

Several lawmakers placed holds on the money over concerns it could affect Israels security due to fears the militant Hezbollah movement has influence in Lebanon's army.

Among those raising concerns were Rep. Howard Berman, a Democrat and chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the top Republican of that committee, and Rep. Nita Lowey, a Democrat who chairs the subcommittee that oversees U.S. foreign assistance.

[TheFallen]

Heh. Good to see you, Brinn. Like me, you must be looking in every now and then, thinking, "Oh, there's no way they can defend this." Followed by, "Nope. Looks like they can."

And every time I look in here, it's like walking into my son's room. This is how you guys want to deport yourselves? I would be embarrassed if people knew I hung out here, much less that I was a regular once.

Hmmm. Not quite like you, Syl. Brinn managed to entirely avoid the stench of supercilious and self-righteous condescension - a fragrance which I personally happen to find more embarrassing for the wearer.

However, do forgive me if I've missed the memo where you were awarded both the moral and intellectual high ground in perpetuity.

It seems to me that you're mere inches from calling those you disagree with "deplorables"... and that never tends to turn out well.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I was finally able to track down the whistleblower's name--Eric Ciaramella. Registered Democrat--no surprise there.

What do we know:

* he was not involved in, and did not listen to, the phone call to Zelensky, which means that he does not have firsthand knowledge of what was said, how it was said, or what might have been implied. All his "knowledge" of the phone call is secondhand from other people--it's all heresay

* worked at the NSC since the Obama Administration, was in the office of the Senior Director for European and Russian Affairs of the National Security Council, and was fired for leaking information to the media

* previously worked for Joe Biden, especially on the VP's foreign policies as they related to--wait for it--Ukraine

* worked at the CIA when Brennan was there (Brennan was a very vocal critic of Trump), specializing in--wait for it--Russia and Ukraine

* rather than filing the whistleblower report via normal channels he went to meet with Adam Schiff, who advised him how to file the report

* worked with former DNC staffer and ardent Hillary supporter Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukranian-American (make special note of that) to dig up dirt on Trump during his 2016 campaign

** Ms. Chalupa, herself, visited the White House with a number of Ukrainian officials lobbying the Obama administration for aid for Ukraine (note: that link downloads a .pdf document, which you then have to open to read)

* Mr. Ciaramella's name has been an "open secret" in Washington for weeks and most major news organization knew he was the whistleblower but were all covering for him and not releasing that information to the public

* he also worked for Susan Rice back in 2015; at that time she was Obama's National Security Advisor (she was also the one who tried to spin that "it was the anti-Muslim video" lie about why Benghazi happened)

* Biden personally invited him to a 2016 State dinner for Italian PM Renzi, a dinner at which Brennan, Comey, and Clapper were also in attendance--this is important because his classification at the time was GS-13 and it was unusual for someone that low on the totem pole to receive such an invitation

* now this is interesting--Ciaramella was the source of the "Putin advised Trump to fire James Comey" conspiracy theory, one of the other contributing factors which led to Mueller

What does all that mean? Simple--his first attempt to bring down Trump via the Mueller Investigation failed, so he filed a "whistleblower" report to start some more shit and now we have an impeachment inquiry. Remember--this guy's career is as a specialist in Ukraine, so he has Ukranian contacts and a vested interest in that country. Don't forget--Steele got some of his faulty information about Trump from Ukraine, not just Russia.

This also means that the Democrats cannot afford for impeachment to go to the Senate, because Senate Republicans will subpoena him for testimony and they won't have any control over what questions get asked.

And since Hashi didnt say it yet......Today is November 1, 2019 and Trump has not yet been impeached.

I typically try to say it at the end of the day, since we never know what any indivdual day may bring. But, no, they still haven't done it yet.