Obama's New HC Plan

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Post by SoulBiter »

This is what happens when you only attack one side of the equation.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589610,00.html
More than a hundred Walgreens drugstores will stop accepting new Medicaid patients next month because the company claims it is losing money.
The drugstore chain claims the state's Medicaid program reimburses it at less than the break-even point for 95 percent of brand-name medications given to Medicaid patients, according to the newspaper.

The policy change will reportedly go into effect April 16.

In February, Bartell Drugs made a similar move, opting to stop accepting new Medicaid patients at 57 of its stores in Washington state.
So Medicaid thinks it can control costs by just trying to dictate what they will pay. Well it wont work.. as you can see above.
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Saw that in another thread I think. Wonder, if it's only in brand-name meds, why don't they just give generics?

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Anyone want to read this 2300 page monster?

docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/111_hr4872_reported.pdf
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CBO: Health Bill Would Force Families to Buy Insurance Costing a Minimum of $12,000 Per Year--Whether Government or Employer Helps Them or Not
Thursday, March 18, 2010
By Pete Winn, Senior Writer/Editor


(CNSNews.com) – If Congress passes the Senate health-care plan, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, American families will be required by federal law to buy a federally approved health insurance plan that will cost a minimum of $12,000 per year--and, on average, will cost $15,000 per year -- whether their employer or the government helps them with the premium or not.

Beginning in 2014, the Senate plan would require all individuals to buy health insurance. Anyone who does not obtain insurance through an employer would be forced to buy it out of their own pocket. Families of four that make up to 400 percent of poverty level--currently $88,200 per year--would receive a subsidy from the government to help pay for their premiums. That subsidy would attenuate as their income increased and would disappear when their income reached the 400 percent of poverty level.

Families earning more than $88,200 a year (or whatever 400 percent of the poverty level equals in any given year) would be entirely on their own. Under the Senate bill, employers would not be required to purchase health insurance for their workers, and if they decided not to do so, the maximum penalty they would have to pay would be $750 per year for each worker they did not insure who subsequently received a federal subsidy to buy insurance. The $750 penalty on employers who decided not to insure their workers would be far less than they would pay in premiums for the $12,000 minimum required plan.

According to the CBO analysis, the insurance plans the Senate bill would require families to purchase would cost an average of $15,200 per year in 2016.

“Average premiums among all types of plans in 2016 would be about $5,800 for single policies and about $15,200 for family policies,” CBO Director Douglas W. Elmendorf wrote in a letter to Sen. Olympa Snowe (R-Maine).

But even the bare-bones, minimum coverage required by the individual mandate in the bill--known as the “Bronze” level insurance plans--would cost families an estimated $12,000 to $12,500 a year, Elmendorf told Snowe.

“Overall, CBO estimates that premiums for Bronze plans purchased individually in 2016 would probably average between $4,500 and $5,000 for single policies and between $12,000 and $12,500 for family policies,” he wrote.

At “bronze” level, an insurance plan covers only 60 percent of medical services. “Silver” level plans cover 70 percent, and “Gold” level plans cover 85 percent or more.

Elmendorf reiterated the average cost to anyone not covered under an employer policy in a letter to Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.): “Average premiums per policy in the nongroup market in 2016 would be roughly $5,800 for single policies and $15,200 for family policies under the proposal, compared with roughly $5,500 for single policies and $13,100 for family policies under current law.

Premiums for specific individuals would differ somewhat on the basis of their age, average spending on health care in their area of the country, and the specific plan they chose, Elmendorf added.

Experts predict that more and more families will be forced off of employer insurance and have to buy their own coverage because employers will be faced with the choice of paying premiums of several thousands dollars per employee for group insurance or paying a fine of just $750 per employee for not providing coverage.

www.cnsnews.com/news/article/63012


Check out that last paragraph. You don't have to be an "expert" to predict that an employer faced with a choice between paying for a $12,000 plan or paying a $750 fine will choose the fine.

So if you make $44,000, and your wife makes $44,000, you'll be forced by the government to give $12,000 per year to those evil insurance companies. That'll show 'em! You get 'em Obama! Those evil insurance companies won't know what hit them when you force everyone to buy their expensive plans!!

This legislation will cause my family's insurance costs to go up by 2400% !!! I like my insurance. I don't want to pay 2400% more. I'm middle class. How the hell is this a good thing for me, and the majority of Americans? I thought the problem with insurance was high cost. What happened to all those sob stories about people not being able to afford insurance?!? THIS is supposed to help?

From the Bret Baier interview with Obama . . .
Obama wrote: What the American people care about is the fact that their premiums are going up 25, 40, 60 percent, and I'm going to do something about it.
He sure the hell is!
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Zarathustra wrote:Those evil insurance companies won't know what hit them when you force everyone to buy their expensive plans!!
:LOLS:

Yeah, I don't get it...

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Post by Orlion »

:rant:
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Post by Harbinger »

It will be interesting to see what the market does. Harbinger's prediction:
Drops at least 100 pts if HC passes.
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Post by Zarathustra »

Harb, that will be interesting. I think you're right.

It will be even more interesting seeing how long it takes people to beg for the public option once we reach a critical mass of people being forced to pay $1000/month for insurance they don't want.

I believe it will be a close race between a majority of people begging the government to take over the health care system completely (probably the intended outcome here) and the SCOTUS declaring it unconstitutional to force people to buy a private sector commodity.
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Well, looks like the timer is gonna be running soon. :D

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Post by Harbinger »

States take aim to block healthcare plan
Reuters

Opponents of the proposed U.S. health care bill are pictured during a rally outside the U.S. Capitol Building in Washington Reuters – Opponents of the proposed U.S. health care bill are pictured during a rally outside the U.S. Capitol …

By Lisa Lambert and Karen Pierog Lisa Lambert And Karen Pierog – Sun Mar 21, 7:42 am ET

WASHINGTON/CHICAGO (Reuters) – As the Congress once again rallies to pass healthcare reform legislation, momentum is growing in many states to pass laws to block the changes -- a move that could lead to a legal battle over states' sovereignty.

Bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

"There's going to be a big free-for-all lawsuit about this," said Michael Bird, legislative counsel for the NCSL.

The House of Representatives is to due vote on Sunday on a sweeping healthcare overhaul that would require all Americans to have health insurance, but would give subsidies to help low- and middle-income workers. It would also ban insurance practices like refusing coverage to those with pre-existing medical conditions.

Opposition efforts at the state level "in general ... seek to make or keep health insurance optional, and allow people to purchase any type of coverage they may choose," the NCSL said.

Democratic House leaders on Friday voiced growing confidence of winning a close vote. If the bill passes the House, it would then only have to pass the Senate by a simple majority under the planned procedure on the legislation.

Mirroring the partisan politics that have dogged the federal legislation, state measures to block healthcare reform are more likely to arise and succeed in states where Republicans control at least one legislative chamber and the governor's office.

So far, only two states, Idaho and Virginia, have enacted laws, while an Arizona constitutional amendment is seeking voter approval on the November ballot. No anti-health care reform legislation has emerged in Democrat-dominated states like Illinois and New York, according to the NCSL.

Idaho Governor C.L. "Butch" Otter signed a bill on Wednesday allowing the state's attorney general to file a lawsuit opposing federal healthcare legislation requiring individuals to buy medical insurance.

Otter sees federal legislation as overreaching and bound to add to medical expenses of state governments, spokesman Jon Hanian said .

"He's concerned we can't afford it," Hanian said, adding that Otter, a Republican, is disappointed in how the Democrat-led U.S. Congress is handling the legislation.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs on Thursday dismissed as political positioning the complaints by states that the healthcare overhaul may endanger their independence or be too costly.

In the latest version of the bill, all states would receive extra funding to cover Medicaid costs that are expected to rise under the reform, including 100 percent federal coverage for new enrollees under the plan through 2016. Medicaid is the healthcare program for the poor jointly administered by the states and federal government.

Still, states are concerned that the burden of providing healthcare will fall to them without enough federal support and that the reforms infringe on their powers under the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights.

For example, Texas Governor Rick Perry, a Republican, says the proposal will double the number of Medicaid recipients in his state and cost an additional $24.3 billion over the next decade.

TENTH AMENDMENT ARGUMENT

Many states cite the 10th Amendment, which says "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states," as proof that the U.S. government cannot set their healthcare laws.

Gibbs did not accept that complaint. "What we're about to pass and sign into law will meet Constitutional muster," he said.

Robert Natelson, a constitutional law professor at the University of Montana School of Law, said it would be easier for states to argue for standing to file a lawsuit that claims the federal government has overstepped its constitutional powers.

"The legal question is, Does this health care bill exceed the federal government's powers or it is invalid for other reasons?" he said.

Michael Boldin, founder of the Tenth Amendment Center, a think-tank on the relationships of the states and federal government, pointed to previous state movements to nullify federal laws in areas such as medical marijuana and Real ID, a federal standard for driving licenses. In the case of marijuana, Boldin said 14 states allow its use for medical purposes despite a prohibition in federal law that has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.

A similar situation may arise with healthcare reform, where there could be mass noncompliance with the law without any real consequences, Boldin said.
Hell yeah. State's rights. Although I do not want this bill to pass, it would almost be worth it to watch the aftermath.
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Post by Worm of Despite »

Bring on the chaos I say. Let's see how Fail Care will keep the boat afloat or rock it to the briney deep.
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Post by Harbinger »

It looks like it's gonna happen.
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Post by Harbinger »

I just thought of a couple of things that would sweeten the healthcare bill and make it more palatable:

Facelifts for Pelosi and Sotomeyer.

Of course, bags would be much more economical.
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Lord Foul wrote:Bring on the chaos I say.
:R :D

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Post by Cail »

....and let the lawsuits begin.

Supposedly there are at least a dozen states who are going to challenge Obamacare, but really any citizen can do it as well.

A federal mandate to buy something from a private company with federal sanctions if you don't is in no way Constitutional.
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Post by Zarathustra »

Enjoy the brief, illusory victory, Democrat leaders. Your time is going to end. This unconstitutional bill will be struck down. And your political fate will fall with it.
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Post by sindatur »

Cail wrote:....and let the lawsuits begin.

Supposedly there are at least a dozen states who are going to challenge Obamacare, but really any citizen can do it as well.

A federal mandate to buy something from a private company with federal sanctions if you don't is in no way Constitutional.
Actually, I'm hearing rumblings that at least 30 states are in the process of passing legislation against enacting it
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Zarathustra wrote:Enjoy the brief, illusory victory, Democrat leaders. Your time is going to end. This unconstitutional bill will be struck down. And your political fate will fall with it.
God, I hope so. I can't believe the drunken stupor they were in at the House--clapping for the last two votes, going "Yes We Can".
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Post by Tjol »

In all truth, I hope there are enough pianos to fall on the heads of all these self serving politicians who put their ambition for a legacy above the will and the good of the people they're supposed to be serving.
Harbinger wrote:I just thought of a couple of things that would sweeten the healthcare bill and make it more palatable:

Facelifts for Pelosi and Sotomeyer.

Of course, bags would be much more economical.
:lol: :biggrin: :lol:
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Post by Farsailer »

Some observations:
Some political consultants I am connected to are of the belief that the Dems will lose at least 60 seats in the House this year. One of them has gone on a limb and said 80. Perhaps that explains the mad rush to pass this Gordian knot of a bill that none of them has read cover-to-cover.

Stupak and other pro-life Dems are going to look like fools when Obama figures out how to undo the executive order he promised them. Obama is staunchly pro-choice; I can't see him not doing that down the road, perhaps after the November elections.

The big issue with the states is that Congress made the plan look good fiscally by cutting a lot of costs that will now be the subject of unfunded mandates to the states. So seeing the states resisting this should not surprise anyone as they haven't got any money to spare and they'll be made to be the bad guys if they have to go to the voters to raise taxes. Pretty clever on Congress' part. The debate over unfunded mandates is long overdue so I want to see the confrontation and the resulting chaos...
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