What is it you believe?

[Avatar]

I didn't delete the post...

--A

[peter]

This is right thinking!

[peter]

Double Post edited out! But while I'm here........

"I believe I can touch the sky!"

[Avatar]

Every post counts.

--A

[peter]

If there were a law obliging every aristocrat to sign up to KW and contribute daily I suppose we could say that every Counts post counts? Could we?

[Skyweir]

[peter]

If there were a law obliging every aristocrat to sign up to KW and contribute daily I suppose we could say that every Counts post counts? Could we?

Not my finest [comedic] hour I concede.....

[Avatar]

Well, we could say every Count posts. Time for a petition obviously. Get the peers in here...

--A

[peter]

Today I believe that we are the means by which the Universe begins to experience itself, the fledgling first step toward becoming self-aware. Furthermore, I do not believe that there are any more like us 'out there'. We are the first and quite possibly the only path to this end, and for this reason if no other it is incumbent upon us to do all in our power to try to avoid eliminating ourselves.

[Zarathustra]

I agree that we are the most important thing in the universe that we know. For this reason, I think we should place our survival at the top of our list of priorities. We shouldn't worry about global warming or anything that slows down the technological/financial means to get off this planet and spread ourselves to multiple worlds.

However, I believe that life is plentiful in the universe. I suspect we've already encountered aliens in our past, and we're probably being monitored this very minute.

[peter]

Hi Z. Now that I must admit suprises me. Not that you believe there to be what we could recognise as intelligent life elsewhere in the universe - but that you believe 'first contact' may already have been and gone (and that we have presumably forgotten it) and that we may still be 'persons of interest' to such far travelling beings. I'm aware that you would not entertain these ideas without having given them some thought and I'd be interested to hear the background behind them. My belief that our survival is of key importance however is because I don't believe they are out there; in fact of life is commonplace, then the importance of our continued existence is much reduced. Intelligent life becomes fungible if it exists in infinite variety across the universe - no?

[Avatar]

I suspect that there is intelligent life out there, and I believe it doesn't matter one little bit whether we survive as a species or not.

Whether we have been found / contacted and monitored, well, it's not impossible, but I tend to consider it unlikely given the unimaginable vastness of space.

--A

[peter]

Is the importance of our survival lessened by the commonplace nature of life across the universe (should that be the case) Av, or is it just not important anyway, even if we are the sole exemplar of 'higher intelligence' - or even life point blank - in the cosmos?

Incidentally, I believe that we might - might - be the precursor of the species that colonises the otherwise barren universe, not that our species will do it. We have a ways to go yet!

[Avatar]

Just not important anyway.

If we all died tomorrow, the stars would continue to burn, the sun would still orbit the galactic central point, the galaxy would continue to travel round the universe, etc etc until the inevitable heat death of the universe.

We're a microscopic blip in the cosmos, equivalent maybe to some sub-atomic particle on our own scale.

Our existence, our lives, our deaths, our achievements, all utterly meaningless on a universal scale.

It's only to ourselves and each other that we have any sort of meaning or relevance.

The universe itself doesn't give a good god damn.

--A

[peter]

But that's only if you consider us apart from the universe. If you look at it holistically, we are the thinking part of the universe and if we think it is important that we survive ...... then it is important.

[Fist and Faith]

That's a circular argument, peter. Unlike most circular arguments, though, this one might be right.
We are part of the universe.
When we think, the universe thinks.
We think our survival is important.
The universe thinks our survival is important.

[Avatar]

If you look at it holistically, we are the thinking part of the universe and if we think it is important that we survive ...... then it is important.

Sure, but only to us.

We are part of the universe.
When we think, the universe thinks.
We think our survival is important.
The universe thinks our survival is important.

If we don't survive, the universe won't think, and our survival will become unimportant.



--A

[Fist and Faith]

True enough. For that matter, we don't even have to not survive. If all humans became unconcerned with our own survival, the universe wouldn't be concerned with our survival.

[peter]

Some humans are not concerned with their survival, but their survival is important nevertheless...........

[Zarathustra]

Hi Z. Now that I must admit suprises me. Not that you believe there to be what we could recognise as intelligent life elsewhere in the universe - but that you believe 'first contact' may already have been and gone (and that we have presumably forgotten it) and that we may still be 'persons of interest' to such far travelling beings.

I used to take the idea a lot more seriously than I do now, based on things I'd read and experiences I've had. Since then, I've learned to be a bit more skeptical of the evidence.

However, if you'd talked to me 15 years ago, you'd be even more surprised. I had some experiences on psychotropic mushrooms that convinced me that I'd made telepathic contact with alien beings. I also had some dreams where information was conveyed to me with such precision that I was convinced it couldn't have come from myself. Astronomical distances, facts, etc. that I later checked and was astonished to find that it was accurate.

I still take Drake's equation seriously. I would be surprised if there were not millions of advanced civilizations in the universe. Life on earth is so tenacious and adaptive, it is simply unthinkable that it has not attained a foothold in millions of worlds. And given that our star is a second generation star, quite young in the universe, there might be civilizations elsewhere that are billions of years older.

Think about that. Billions of years. When you consider the exponential advancement we've had in the last century, it is unimaginable how advanced alien species could be. They would be like gods. Their technology would seem like magic. But I think the truly astonishing advancement would be their consciousness. They probably don't need to fly around the universe to explore it. They probably don't need to travel to contact other sentient beings. I think they probably tap directly into the part of the universe that is alive, the principles that cause life to emerge, and are "one" with reality.

That's why I think we're probably being monitored. I think they could know all our thoughts and feelings. I think they could watch over all life in the universe, and would feel compelled to do so ... especially life that has the potential to break out of its own gravity well with nuclear weapons and muck things up in galaxy. I'm sure they don't worry too much about us hurting them, but they probably don't want us blowing up less advanced civilizations--or ourselves.

Now how surprised are you?