Kevin's Watch

Hey, I'm late to the conference, but I've been reading the last few weeks of posts to catch up. If I repeat someone else's theories, that's good, you know, like a confirmation? I'm not sure what qualifies as a spoiler here, so I'll apologize for overdoing it now.

A few comments on Lost, in regards to:

The Others finding the real "Sawyer"-- they didn't. Ben wanted Cooper so

Spoiler

he could convince Locke to kill his father

and have something in common with Ben. It was a coincidence they discovered later when the Others did their normal, exhaustive research on anyone they bring to the island. "The Man from Tallahasee" was Cooper.

The Magic Box -- I tend to see this as pure hokum. The Box didn't bring Cooper, the Others did. Now, if you're referring to how people see things on the island that aren't there (Jack's father, Kate's Black Beauty), I'll stop, 'cause my theories aren't solid.

Uhh, who is Richard and how old is he? -- with all the machinations the writers have done with the show, I can't believe (as some have suggested) they couldn't make Richard look younger or older if they wanted. Don't forget,

Spoiler

Richard is the first Other to meet Ben. He is also at least 10 years older, yet he defers to Ben.

What have we not seen? -- the submarine move, just people get out of it; Michael and Walt; Rousseau leave the Others complex, then suddenly she's at the Black Rock; a translation of Naomi's Italian to Mikhail; Jacob (despite the image in slow-mo).

Jacob --

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I'm not completely convinced that what happened in the cabin wasn't an act. An act to distract Locke from what was really hidden. Ben could have said "Help me" to Locke, but his paranoia forced him to be sure that Locke heard only that. Or the island (what Ben calls Jacob) did reach out to Locke, but the rest was a sham to distract. Don't ask me--yet--why Ben would take Locke near 'Jacob' if he didn't want Locke to meet him.

Pregnancy -- are the Others cursed because of what they've done?

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Not just the purge, but to the island?

That would take Sun off the hook.

The Dharma Food drops--considering that there was a purge several years ago, but the Dharma label is still on supplies, is the Hanso Corp aware of the pecking order on the island? Since Locke entered '7', has there been a drop? What came up on the screen when he did? He clearly had time to remove a hunk of C4. By doing so, did he inform Hanso of an incursion of the hostiles? Or is Hanso simply complicit with the Others?

Trite plot devices -- any and all of these would qualify as "jumping the shark". The 815 survivors are really dead and in purgatory; the show's events are part of a VR game/study; one or more of the characters uses telepathy to gather information (like Desmond, advantages like this must have drawbacks); the Others are time travelers, which is how they know everything (oh, I'm not proud of that one); it's all a dream and the survivors wake up on the plane and recognize each other--but no one else is on the plane! Oh sorry . . . I wandered into an old rant.

Oh my. Did I go on that long? That's what happens when everyone you know is Tivoing it to watch all at once.

Nice post. agree about richard, was he supposed to have not aged? Suggesting that the island can slow aging, or could they just not get looking any younger?

( I'm not sure about spoilers but, i dont think they are needed in this thread, unless its from a future - unaired - episode. )

I like the fact that Ben mad Locke kill his father as he did.

mikail must hate the Losies now, he's bean battered by Sayid, Jin and Locke now

another thing i thought of, if Ben spared annie i wonder if he got her pregnant? Perhaps she died in labour? Sparking the Others obsession with fertility.

One last thing, i loved how you were supposed to think the baby ( Ben ) was being born on the island,'' they dont know we are out here '', when they were really in Portland.

Good post IiW. Interesting obervations. I too have questions regarding the Dharma resources being dropped on the non-hostile portion (losties) portion of the island. If the experiments are over due to Ben's mass-killing...why bother? It is a contridiction to be sure. I keep waiting to find out whether or not one of our heroes is actually a Dharma employee/plant whose primarty mission it is to find out what went wrong 20 years ago.

"...One last thing, i loved how you were supposed to think the baby ( Ben ) was being born on the island,'' they dont know we are out here '', when they were really in Portland."

I liked that too. Was the lady and man in the car on the island too when Roger and Ben came to the island? I tohught Olivia may have been the lady in the car.

The man was definatley there, he was Roger's boss. The guy with the long hair.

Another thought - heh - what was the meaning of the greeting they got when they got of the sub. Something beginging with 'N'.

Namasté or Namaskar (नमस्ते [nʌmʌsˈteː] in Nepali and Hindi (from internal sandhi between namaḥ and te) is an Indian greeting or parting phrase as well as a gesture.

Taken literally, it means "I bow to you". The word is derived from Sanskrit (namas): to bow, obeisance, reverential salutation, and (te): "to you" [1].

When spoken to another person, it is commonly accompanied by a slight bow made with hands pressed together, palms touching and fingers pointed upwards, in front of the chest. The gesture can also be performed wordlessly and carry the same meaning.

I keep waiting to find out whether or not one of our heroes is actually a Dharma employee/plant whose primarty mission it is to find out what went wrong 20 years ago.

I don't think anyone on 815 could be a plant. That requires someone to know that Kelvin planned to leave in Desmond's ship, and that Desmond would be away following him instead of pressing the button.

Unless you don't believe that's what brought 815 down.

However, that does not preclude one of our heroes being turned. Personally, I don't like all the brainwash talk. Manipulation, yes (like what happened with Michael). Reprogramming someone's head, no. That kind of thing creates a whole different type of psychosis, which reduces the affected persons usefulness. That doesn't mean Ben's group cares, and putting Carl in that chair might have been an attempt to damage him so that Alex would turn away from him. Where is Carl, anyway?

One last thing, i loved how you were supposed to think the baby ( Ben ) was being born on the island,'' they dont know we are out here '', when they were really in Portland.

That's something the writers excel at. They did something like that at the beginning of "Not in Portland".

Was the lady and man in the car on the island too when Roger and Ben came to the island? I tohught Olivia may have been the lady in the car.

Yes. Can't remember his name, but that guy was the one who got Roger into Dharma. Roger complained about being misled and told him he wanted more money.

agree about richard, was he supposed to have not aged? Suggesting that the island can slow aging, or could they just not get looking any younger?

How Richard was presented must be exactly as the writers/producers wanted us to see him. I can't imagine them making a quality mistake like that, in a show of nuances like Lost.

"I don't think anyone on 815 could be a plant. That requires someone to know that Kelvin planned to leave in Desmond's ship, and that Desmond would be away following him instead of pressing the button.

Unless you don't believe that's what brought 815 down."

You are probably right...however, the connections between these characters cannot be accidental. They were destined to be on that plane and crash on that Island, so either SOME sort of manipulation by a greater power casued Kelvin/Desmoind to bring the plane down, or something else DID.

You are probably right...however, the connections between these characters cannot be accidental. They were destined to be on that plane and crash on that Island, so either SOME sort of manipulation by a greater power casued Kelvin/Desmoind to bring the plane down, or something else DID.

Oh . . . no, don't say it! It's too flip. Can't stop myself!

That would be the writers.
(I've seen Duck Amuck, with Bugs drawing Daffy daffy, too many times to pass that one up)

Seriously, I get what you mean. IMO, the intertwining of the individual characters' lives before the crash fosters that feeling, and some of the crossovers are getting too cutesy. It ain't that small a world.

Even if the powers that be did design these interweaving lives to get on the same plane on 22 Oct and manipulated things to have it crash at a specific spot, how would they know who would survive? If that is the case, perhaps even more interesting lives were on that plane with amazing storys to tell, but they didn't survive the crash. Or perhaps Jack and the girl who drowned in Ep 2 had some connection in the past that would have explained some action of his, but now we'll never know because he couldn't save her.

Greater power.... Ben had cancer, and the plane had a surgeon who would fix him. Ben killed his father, and the plane had another guy who hated his father, who would participate in Ben's little Oedipal play. I'm telling you... don't be surprised if everyone's backstory ties into Ben somehow.

Wayfriend wrote:Greater power.... Ben had cancer, and the plane had a surgeon who would fix him. Ben killed his father, and the plane had another guy who hated his father, who would participate in Ben's little Oedipal play. I'm telling you... don't be surprised if everyone's backstory ties into Ben somehow.

Maybe. It is a thought to ponder.

What happened to Michael and Walt?

Sure, they left the island on a boat, with a heading to get them home, but they're suppose to be dead, like everyone else on 815. They know others survived, etc etc. Would the people who arranged for the plane to be found, where it couldn't be raised, really allow Michael to go his merry way?

Knowing more about Ben than we knew a year ago makes me wonder if he only kept half of his word. And if that's the case, where are they?

Btw, the answer, dead, doesn't cut it. Michael and Walt are a loose end that should be dealt with, sometime in the next 3 years.

I am sure they will be dealt with. I half expect to see Walt reappear sans Michael, whom the island might judge most harshly.

Desmond left the island in a boat .... he just sailed around and sailed around, until he gave up. I got the impression that he tried for months. But whatever direction he sailed in, he kept coming back to the island.

So I don't think Michael and Walt will escape unless they are really allowed to escape.

Walt's abilities definitely point to some sort of psychic phenomenon, don't they?

And what did the psychic (yeah psychic) say about Claire's baby? I get the impression that he's another candidate for some sort of psychic abilities.

Indeed. ANd I agree to an extent that Michael and Walt may not be able to fully leave. But as I say, Wqalt will still live whereas michael?

Well, if Walt comes back after a year or two hiatas, then the writers will have to do something to figure out how little Walt now has such a low voice, is tall as an outhouse and is sportin chin whiskers, given that only a couple months would have passed on the island.

I just watched this ep again and noticed a few more things, big and small. But the important one was the scene in Jacob's hut. Quite a bit takes place in a short while. Besides seeing the old man in the chair for a split second, there is a shot of the lantern hitting the floor and starting a fire. A few seconds later it appears the fire is snuffed out suddenly, as if Jacob "willed it" or what ever he does. Locke runs out the door and soon after Ben comes out and puts the lantern on the hook outside; the lantern isn't even broke.

I think that is not an uncaught blip in continunity, but rather gives us a possible hint to what is going on, or at least the powers of Jacob, perhaps even of the island. I think Jacob exists a bit outside the time stream, so to speak, either by design or accident, and thus perhaps even has the ability to control time. I think Jacob might have reversed time in the shack to undo the breaking of the lantern and undo the fire. I bet if we walked back into the hut we'd see the jars of god knows what unsmashed and setting back on the shelves.

The island obviously has something to do with time flow, somehow. The un-aged Richard is an example. Recall Ben asks Richard, upon telling Richard it was his birthday, "You remember birthdays, don't you Richard?"

So, anyway I hope Jacob was watching Locke get shot and reverses time to undo the damage. There is no way the show would risk loosing the best, most interesting character if Locke's end is in that pit.

I half expect to see Walt reappear sans Michael, whom the island might judge most harshly.

Why would the island care? I tend to think of it more as a trickster, messing with people for the fun of it. Hurley's invisible friend? Sawyer and the boar? Does anyone still believe the dog is just a dog? Then there's Ecko and his brother. Locke losing his legs so that Boone had to go up in the plane and die. I don't see a specific morality here.

You know why Michael shot AL and Libby? Because the Others backed him, told him to do whatever it took. In his flashbacks, Michael wanted to do what it took to get Walt back twice, and both times he was alone. First, hit by a car, then talked out of it by Walt's mother. Faced with the same task on the island, he must do 2 things, which became 4. But he had failed twice and couldn't again. Which is why he couldn't talk to Jack or Locke; they'd talk him out of it or change what needed to be done to get Walt back, and he'd fail.

So again, I ask, why would the island care? Yes, he killed 2 people--which must be atoned for in some way--and helped the Others. Or did he? The kidnapping of Jack, Kate and Sawyer may have led to Ben's successful surgery, but Ben is no longer in control. We saw that when Locke handled Mikhail. Perhaps AL and Libby are like Boone, sacrifices that the island demanded.

And what did the psychic (yeah psychic) say about Claire's baby? I get the impression that he's another candidate for some sort of psychic abilities.

The psychic insisted that Claire raise her baby, that if she gave Aaron up for adoption, his life would be miserable. Then he duped her into getting on a plane he apparently knew was going to crash and that she would survive. In hindsight, it appears he saw the Others taking her baby and how that would be bad. Ironic, isn't it?

The Island (Jacob?) seems to judge harshly regression by, or weakness of characters on it. Eko was given a chance to confess his sins and refused, and was killed.

In prior flashbacks, Micheal's flaw was giving up, ceding control of his life and destination, then whining about it. On the island he became a leader of sorts, determing not only hs own direction, but that of his son, and others. Until, at least, he was gamed by Ben and the others into killing Ana Lucia (and Libby).

I think that when our folks are challenged and they falter or regress the island (jacob) removes them from the chess board.

Michael and Walt were probably given coordinates to teh third island. They have been trying to work out a deal with Harold Perrineau to return in S4 to close out his arc.

Finale Casting spoiler:

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Spoiler says Walt will return in the Season Finale, and a previous spoiler said if Machael and Walt do return, they have a "cool explanation" for Walt's aging.