Kevin's Watch

I have mah doubts that anything new will be said in this thread that has not already been said.

firelion wrote:I have mah doubts that anything new will be said in this thread that has not already been said.

ARRRRGGGG!!!! for being so punny!!

Hey finn, you completely misunderstand me. The great dissertation wasn't about "guessing", it was about a logical and systematic exploration of all potential possibilities in order to enrich the community's shared perception and unify numerous subjective viewpoints into a coherent, ambiguous whole.

Fair enough, you cannot then claim to have got it right through "logical and systematic exploration of all potential possibilities in order to enrich the community's shared perception and unify numerous subjective viewpoints into a coherent, ambiguous whole"

But remember that I do have opinions of my own. I think the Mahdoubt is most likely a Demondim, for example, which I think I was the first ever to suggest despite reading the book nearly a year later than almost everyone else here. (Merewife would be my second-place estimate.) The thing about being comphrehensive is that it allows one to analyze a problem thoroughly and may bring insights that could have been otherwise missed. Note that I have also put some estimations what is likely and what is not and the big list at the bottom was there mainly to show that I had considered those things and judged them unlikely.

Lighten up, I'm only pulling your leg!

But you can't have your cake and eat it................ma deira!

Still very much doubt she's a Demondim personally. Possible but unlikely. We've already got Demondim running around. Another camoflaged one? Nah.

Not to say that I think she is necessarily benign, or completely so, I think you've convinced me of that, but Demondim? Only evidence I remember you offering is the "wisps of black," which, although the Demondim apparently have them as well, may well be nothing more than, for example, an indication of alignment. In other words, not something specific to them as a species/whatever.

--A

I think the Demondim idea is made more appealing precisely because we already have Demondim running around.

I think the plot would be served best if the Mahdoubt:
- was something we have been at least heard of before, preferably in the Runes proper, since foreshadowing is a fine and effective technique
- was not someone we are very familiar with, since that would cause thorny issues with characterization and need someone to be an excellent actor who can change her speech patterns completely
- was something fairly powerful (but I think we can already say we know that)
- was either malevolent or at least not wholly benevolent (I think we know that too)

I think a Demondim is an excellent fit for these points. They have appeared in person and been built up as terrifying threats but we don't really know them. They haven't been doing much except fairly straight-forward attacking. We have little idea of their true motivations. We know that the Demondim are intelligent and lore-wise creatures and they should be capable of much more than blasting stuff with power. We have never heard them speak and have no idea of their natural speech patterns.

I think the Mahdoubt could represent a different, subtler side of the Demondim. This has the potential to not only be a huge revelation about the Mahdoubt (like with most every Mahdoubt option) but also a huge revelation about the Demondim, that could elevate them on an another level and complicate the plot while doing it. Keeping the Demondim as one-note horrors seems very un-SRD-ish to me, so I expect that they'll be built up, one way or other, which means there has to be some sort of communication with them in which the participants are no too busy trying to kill each other to talk. I just think this has already started. I think the Demondim would also prefer to have a better idea what they are up against since they have been seriously displaced in time.

(Merewives are another option that fits well with my list.)

Nerdanel, you are only fond of the Demondim theory because of your affiliation *points at Nerdanel's title"

Nah, seriously, I'm not sure about your Demondim theory, but I do agree where you say that it would be very un-SRD-ish to create and use the Demondim as a simple "hammer". After all, as he said in the GI (as reported in the Foul Getting Smarter thread) he says he's not more interested in motivations and "fleshing out" characters to make them less archetypal, so I guess this could also apply to the Demondim.

You know, I was very close to having a Waynhim-related title. A hyphen away, in fact.

But anyway, I think my appreciation for the Demondim may have let me see things the other fearless Mahdoubt researchers have missed. I also originally flipped back to the pages on which the Mahdoubt appeared and failed to make any connection to the Demondim. Only when I reread the Demondim parts a flash of insight opened its mixedly-metaphorical petals of wispy darkness in me. I think SRD hid this one well, so that crucial evidence included a seemingly off-hand mention in the middle of an emotionally charged scene not obviously related to the central mystery. Isn't that kind of thing what mystery authors (which SRD also is) do?

But I do think the Demondim are cool. I have trouble pin-pointing why exacly. There is just something about them.

Or, simply to play Devil's Advocate, have led you to see things that are not there?

Am suspending judgement personally... (Just thought, some sort of earthpowerful being like Anele is?

--A

I have come up with YET ANOTHER innovative Mahdoubt idea from the twilight zone.

Considering two snippets I haven't considered in any previous theory of mine:

SRD on the Mahdoubt wrote:...with a crow's nest of hair askew on her head...

It's hard to do your own hair when you are a leper and have no feeling in your hands.

SRD on the Mahdoubt wrote:...features which might have been sculpted by an unruly child during a tantrum

Leprosy is linked to disfiguration.

As you all probably recall, the Arch of Time is nowadays a combination of white gold and leprosy. This is an interesting point with implications that are unclear but bound to be significant.

I think there may be leprosy in the Land nowadays and it would not be curable by hurtloam because Earthpower cannot attack the Arch of Time. Moreover, it may be that the lepers have special powers because of their leprosy. Essentially, this theory would be a variant of the Modern Lord idea.

Nerdanel wrote:As you all probably recall, the Arch of Time is nowadays a combination of white gold and leprosy.

I don't recall that. I remember the Arch being threatened by venom, but not leprosy.

I think Covenant at the end of White Gold Wielder explicitly said something to the effect that the Arch of Time now consists of white gold and leprosy and that venom isn't part of it because Lord Foul burned it out of Covenant with his attacks. I could look it up, but I'm in the middle of a reread of the series and I would prefer not to look at the ending right now, even though I basically remember what will happen.

(Now that I think of it, I wonder if Lord Foul was completely irrational at the end or if he realized his earlier mistake[*] and decided that Covenant as the Arch of Time would be unmanageably powerful with a venom component, which made it an immediate priority for him to blast away all that venom he had injected into Covenant earlier. It would be interesting to know what the effect of venom in the Arch would have been and whom it would have benefitted.)

[*] Covenant thinks he can be commanded as one of the Dead, but do we know this for certain? White gold would have been able to nullify the force of Hile Troy's promise to Caer Caveral.

Wayfriend wrote:

Nerdanel wrote:As you all probably recall, the Arch of Time is nowadays a combination of white gold and leprosy.

I don't recall that. I remember the Arch being threatened by venom, but not leprosy.

Agree with WF.

I don't remember anything like that, as well, plus it would not make very much sense in my opinion. After all, leprosy is a disease of the body, and Covenant's body was killed: it is his spirit that has turned into the keystone of the Arch of Time (and it couldn't be otherwise, since the Arch of Time is likely not exactly a physical building), and his spirit of course is not afflicted with leprosy. Marid's poison, being a "moral poison", could and would have been passed on to Covenant's spirit (had he not been purged with blasts of wild magic due to Foul's attacks), but Covenant's leprosy (being in no way a disease of the spirit), would have remained with Thomas's lifeless body, no longer impacting on his role as the keystone.

Just to throw this out there. It is like SRD to make the Mahdoubt something we have at least heard of...What about her being a Vile?

NO, regarding the marrowmeld bone art reference. SPM is an artform not "sculpted by an unruly child during a tantrum". But all ideas may yield fresh insight.

A merewife, sculpted by a childish tantrum? Demondim? they are outside the door! she's a Jherrin( spell) or produced by them

SRD can use the demondim asa hammer cuz all bets are off and ANYTHING goes in the land with caesures, falls, or what-have-you. I mean, hell, they arnt just demondim, they are illearth stone fortified, with a magical current running from the stone in the past to the "present". it could be a hammer all right.