Kevin's Watch

Cambo wrote:"Saner people".......Where did you say you were posting again, Lorin?

Glad you posted that. Saved me the trouble.

Cambo wrote:Everyone's needs are different, though, and placing emphasis on IRL support is undoubtedly good advice.

*shrug* What is real? Aren't we actually engaged in real life right now?

One thing about strangers that makes it easier to open up to them is that you can never disappoint them. Strangers have no expectations of you.

--A

Exactly. There is also no personal investment in you. Sometimes that helps, I'm just saying in my journey I had to move past that.

There is just something about having a person there you can touch, smell, see their body language, hear their tone of voice... having said that, I know how hard it is to find that safe place with people. That's why the 'net is so popular. Things get threatening, there's always that little 'x' on the top right corner. Not so with people. Saying goodbye is so much more complicated. But my computer never kissed me, either.

I don't want to smell any of you.

Fist and Faith wrote:I don't want to smell any of you.

You have such a picky sense of smell...

Holsety wrote:

Fist and Faith wrote:I don't want to smell any of you.

You have such a picky sense of smell...

Don't get me started on how perfumes and deodorants have crippled human communication/civilization.

Vraith wrote: Don't get me started on how perfumes and deodorants have crippled human communication/civilization.

I hate when a person wears too much perfume or cologne. I feel like they are hiding something. They just don't seem clean.

Ah, the joys of marketing.

--A

lorin wrote:I am always scared I will say something wrong. I know I will not offend, there are just too many filters in my brain, but I am very scared that if the truth comes out...

Oh gosh yes, I know this fear... the filters, the filters... and layers of filters (along with layers of outright lies, I can say for myself) that are so deep that we don't even know how to unravel them. Because we just wouldn't expect. there. to. be. so. many.

But then, there's the wonderful fortune that sometimes, in the presence of someone I know, BECAUSE I know them... because I'm responding to their personality... the words just tumble out; words that illuminate what was really in me all along... though I couldn't even see.

You and I have got some things in common, girl. Maybe you're not really so invisible as you may think.

lorin wrote:My therapist always told me I could not get completely well unless I own my past (and it is quite a past). I always told him that the past is the past and I choose to forget it. But now I am coming around to his point of view. How can I maintain relationships of any kind when every word, every action is filtered? I am so guarded against the past I cannot find a future.

But there's always the question of what "owning your past" means. Sometimes we don't know what we need to do because we don't want to do it yet; I've encountered that barrier so many times in myself. I am curious what you think you need to do at the place where you find yourself now.

lorin wrote:All I can say to make you feel better is to know you are not alone.

It's definitely an encouragement... I take it in the direction of, "GIVEN that I live in a broken world, my brokenness is something that can become useful for others; if I'll only start to work on my own problems." (which is the hard part.)

But there's always the question of what "owning your past" means. Sometimes we don't know what we need to do because we don't want to do it yet; I've encountered that barrier so many times in myself. I am curious what you think you need to do at the place where you find yourself now.

Would love you to expound on this a bit more.

This thread so often has the best discussions.

I was about to write that I share much more online than I do in face to face ways, but that's not actually true. I'm pretty open. I just am able to put it out much more succintly online.

My biggest problem is I'm much better at the beginning of meeting people than once I get comfortable. For instance, when I started at Kevin's Watch. I was a little less myself and much more social and commented on almost everything. Then, once I got to know people a bit more, I stopped commenting as much, and I find that as much as I hang out here these days, I don't tend to comment all that much. It seems easier when it is faceless people I don't know than people I have actually met. The same thing happened at the latest Elohimfest. I was very chatty at first, at least for me, and then by the last day we were there, I pretty much was sitting back listening to the other conversations. I recognize I have a LOT of social anxiety, which might strike some that have met me as odd. I think my biggest problem is that I don't enjoy small talk for very long, and have no skills in it. I'd much rather sit down one on one with someone and get into a deep conversation about whatever. I'd say Lucimay and I had the best conversation in Albuquerque, and it was sadly shortlived. And the nights Seareach stayed in Denver were the best of Seafest. I had a great time with Bossk during this Elohimfest as well, and I wonder how much I was able to put away my social anxiety because he was around. What's funny is that I seem to be having a harder and harder time finding things to talk about with people, and I give less and less of a shit what people think of me, and it doesn't stress me out as much as it used to. But I'm probably getting worse.

As for "owning your past," I totally get this as a few years ago I came to terms with several things in my past, and I'm much more content now that I dealt with them and have forgiven myself. It's much easier to forgive others than it is to forgive yourself.

Cagliostro wrote:This thread so often has the best discussions.

I was about to write that I share much more online than I do in face to face ways, but that's not actually true. I'm pretty open. I just am able to put it out much more succintly online.

My biggest problem is I'm much better at the beginning of meeting people than once I get comfortable. For instance, when I started at Kevin's Watch. I was a little less myself and much more social and commented on almost everything. Then, once I got to know people a bit more, I stopped commenting as much, and I find that as much as I hang out here these days, I don't tend to comment all that much. It seems easier when it is faceless people I don't know than people I have actually met. The same thing happened at the latest Elohimfest. I was very chatty at first, at least for me, and then by the last day we were there, I pretty much was sitting back listening to the other conversations. I recognize I have a LOT of social anxiety, which might strike some that have met me as odd. I think my biggest problem is that I don't enjoy small talk for very long, and have no skills in it. I'd much rather sit down one on one with someone and get into a deep conversation about whatever. I'd say Lucimay and I had the best conversation in Albuquerque, and it was sadly shortlived. And the nights Seareach stayed in Denver were the best of Seafest. I had a great time with Bossk during this Elohimfest as well, and I wonder how much I was able to put away my social anxiety because he was around. What's funny is that I seem to be having a harder and harder time finding things to talk about with people, and I give less and less of a shit what people think of me, and it doesn't stress me out as much as it used to. But I'm probably getting worse.

As for "owning your past," I totally get this as a few years ago I came to terms with several things in my past, and I'm much more content now that I dealt with them and have forgiven myself. It's much easier to forgive others than it is to forgive yourself.

this post deserves a more thorough response but unfortunately work and a two hour commute are calling me. So until tonight I have to be brief. But I wanted to say that maybe, Cag, you are just getting older. Maybe you are confusing past social anxiety with current maturity. I have found that as I get older I have less patience for bullshit (no _ here). I value my time with people and don't want to waste my time, my energy, my thoughts on crap. I value the few people, virtual or IRL, that I have in my life too much to waste my time or theirs on small talk and nonsense. I had a writing coach in my last year at school and he consistently said two things to me Quality not quantity and Less is more. More (or less ) on this later.

I wish I had gotten to speak to you in NM.

lorin wrote: I wish I had gotten to speak to you in NM.

Thanks. I feel the same about you, as well as several others that I didn't get the chance to, such as Null and his wife and Lore and Johnnyredleader. I felt talked out so quickly, and I wish I had more stamina after the Donaldson meeting to put in more time. That or another day to meet with folks.


And you are right - it's probably that I'm getting old and cranky.

Cagliostro wrote:What's funny is that I seem to be having a harder and harder time finding things to talk about with people, and I give less and less of a shit what people think of me, and it doesn't stress me out as much as it used to. But I'm probably getting worse.

You're not. Lorin's right -- it's maturity. I am in the same boat as both of you.

So as long as you don't have a problem with being in the same boat as a couple of 50-ish broads, you're doing okay.

Make that four of us then, regarding interaction in person.
...only I think I retreat further than any of you, especially if there is a computer available.

Menolly, you don't retreat -- you go into hiding.

Guilty as charged...
But I still have fun being in the atmosphere of 'fests.

Cagliostro wrote:And you are right - it's probably that I'm getting old and cranky.

How in the world did you get THAT out of what I said? Lean over so I can slap you ! I am s a y i n g that what we say to people, and what we get from what people say to us becomes much more valuable as we mature. Silly little banter becomes boring. Life teaches us to value each other and life teaches us the importance of silence, of hearing not just listening.

lorin wrote:Life teaches us to value each other and life teaches us the importance of silence, of hearing not just listening.

I would go further to say that as we mature, if we allow ourselves to stop and *really* pay attention, we gain the ability to see past people's defenses (up or not) and artifices to hear more of what they are expressing, and whether their expression might bely their words. Almost like health-sense.
And it only takes a little while with someone like that, even in seemingly casual conversation, to realize that a bond is forming, and that it is meaningful, and a thing to be sought after, and savored long after the conversation is over.
And that's why KW is great, but Elohimfest is a-w-e-s-o-m-e.

dw

Good post, dw. (We missed you this year, btw. )