Kevin's Watch

Now now, why would we apply revisionist history to Mhoram? There are several key things that set Mhoram apart from his peers on the New Lords Councils, past and present: His prowess as an oracle, his wielding of the krill, his relationship with Covenant, his defeat of the Giant-Ravers, and his political-philosophical foresight. As has been said, he reconized the constraints of the Oath of Peace rendered it inadequate to battle the Despiser. Since he was the first New Lord to recognize this, and put into action, as we must assume, a new policy for the Lords, I would say that this particular achievement, coupled with his various accomplishments throughout the Chronicles, make him easily the greatest of the New Lords.

LM, I agree Absolutely!

A great quote from Fist and Faith on the "Let's Hear it for Mhoram" thread:

Quote:
Covenant gripped the Lord's gave, and said, "Tell me something, Mhoram. How did you get away - when that Raver caught you - near Foul's Creche?"

Mhoram answered with a conscious serenity, a refusal of dismay, which looked like danger in his gold-flecked eyes. "The Bloodguard with me were slain. But when samadhi Raver touched me, he knew me as I knew him. He was daunted."

________

This for me brings to mind Treachers Gorge. IIRC Kevin was wary and sent many of the Old Lords (to their deaths) while not going himself.

Mhoram is one of my favourite characters in any book I've read. But I'd bet that a fair few Old Lords capable of daunting a Raver died that day. Personally I think that the realisation of that fact played a big part in Kevin's despair.

But IMHO if Mhoram had been born into the times of the Old Lords I think we would know the name of at least one Old Lord not of Berek's line.

I know this doesn't really have anything to do with this thread but it's not important enough to start a whole new one I think. That quote has always bothered me because Terrel was meant to be warding Mhoram but obviously at that time Terrel wasn't there or he wouldve been killed.

KAY1 wrote:I know this doesn't really have anything to do with this thread but it's not important enough to start a whole new one I think. That quote has always bothered me because Terrel was meant to be warding Mhoram but obviously at that time Terrel wasn't there or he wouldve been killed.

Are you sure of that? I seem to recall that terrell's service to Mhroam started after the encounter at TG.

He was Mhoram's prtector in LFB definitely as when he and Korik went off to lead away the pursuing Kresh etc on the way to Mount Thunder when they were ambushed by the Griffin, there was a quote which said something like 'Korik and Terrel (who warded Lord Mhoram)'

I think that is just an error on SRD's part, to be honest.

Lord Mhoram wrote:Now now, why would we apply revisionist history to Mhoram? There are several key things that set Mhoram apart from his peers on the New Lords Councils, past and present: His prowess as an oracle, his wielding of the krill, his relationship with Covenant, his defeat of the Giant-Ravers, and his political-philosophical foresight. As has been said, he reconized the constraints of the Oath of Peace rendered it inadequate to battle the Despiser. Since he was the first New Lord to recognize this, and put into action, as we must assume, a new policy for the Lords, I would say that this particular achievement, coupled with his various accomplishments throughout the Chronicles, make him easily the greatest of the New Lords.

One of my earlier posts lauded Mhoram as the greatest lord, period. Better than Kevin, and by proxy better than Damelon, Loric, or even Berek Half-Hand, since I believe the books say that Kevin was the mightiest of all of them. Better than Prothall, Elena, Amatin, or any of his colleagues. Likely better than anyone who came after him. But none of this makes it impossible for the memory of the Land's people to be extinguished, especially since the Second Chronicles seem to show a people that, in a biblical sense, "did not know mhoram". Hell, Covenant was if I remember correctly remembered as an enemy - he wasn't perfect, but he definitely earned better than that by the end of the first chronicles.

This is further proved true because we even see

Spoiler

how an intentionally benevolent force, the Masters of the Third Chronicles, can simply conceal all the Land's history and obscure even Mhoram's name.

That last sentence should be in spoilers.

Best does not necessarily mean mightiest. I think Mhoram was better than Kevin, even though I'm sure Kevin could wield more earthpower, and knew more uses for it.

I Love Mhoram So mucho. His understanding, his deep thinking, His Eyes, his power, he never gave up, his love for beauty and the Land, he always put the people first, and his passion for everything he believes in and did. I just think Mhoram was the best and my fav from the first chronicles.

I must agree with Fist and Faith on this one,I really think that Mhoram was an infant next to Kevin Landwaster in Earthpower lore,however knowing the RoD and then CHOOSING NOT to use it showed more insight and POWER of restraint and true love for the Land.Then after discovering the secret of RoD to have the loving trust in his fellow Lords to share the secret and not to clasp the power to his breast in greed showed he had INFINITE power against Despite.That ladies and gentlemen is true power in every shape form and function without parallel.The key here to Lord Mhoram's power is LOVE and UNDERSTANDING,something Kevin did not have,Loric Vilesilencer did not have,AND Berek Half-Hand did not have.So, the part about being a seer is secondary to his understanding of humanity and his further understanding of Despite.That is why the Raver was daunted by looking into Mhoram's soul.He(the Raver) saw more power in one person by his qualities alone that the Raver couldn't dream of fighting.....................

High Lord Kevin himself said that Mhoram was lucky - that the New Lords were "redeemed from despair by the Unbeliever's brave mastery of the Despiser."

High Lord Mhoram, had Covenant not vanquished the Despiser, may well have become a Desecrator just like Kevin. (albeit on a smaller scale)

MrKABC wrote:High Lord Kevin himself said that Mhoram was lucky - that the New Lords were "redeemed from despair by the Unbeliever's brave mastery of the Despiser."

Kevin was wrong. He was no longer able to see himself or others for what they truly were after he fell into despair. The new Lords didn't despair, and, so, didn't need redemption from it.

MrKABC wrote:High Lord Mhoram, had Covenant not vanquished the Despiser, may well have become a Desecrator just like Kevin. (albeit on a smaller scale)

If he faced a greater challenge than a Stone-wielding Giant-Raver, and was again victorious, we might say, "Well, give him something even bigger, and I bet he'll despair." And if he still doesn't despair, we can say, "Well, give him something..." We can't keep inventing more horrible challenges for him. What we do know is that he thought he was the last thing fighting for the Land; he thought he was going to die, leaving the Land defenseless; and he did not despair.

He was alone against them.

He retreated to the center of the hollow, hunted swiftly around the rim for some gap or weakness in the surrounding horde. He found none. And though he sent his perceptions ranging as far as he could through the air, he discovered no sign of the Warward; if the warriors were still alive, still fighting, they were blocked from his senses by the solid force of the trap.

As he grasped the utterness of his plight, he turned inward, retreated into himself as if he were fleeing. There he looked the end of all his hopes and all his Landservice in the face, and found that its scarred, terrible visage no longer appalled him. He was a fighter, a man born to fight for the Land. As long as something for which he could fight remained, he was impervious to terror. And something did remain; while he lived, at least one flame of love for the Land still burned. He could fight for that.

Kevin was in the same position, and he despaired.

Fist and Faith wrote:

MrKABC wrote:High Lord Kevin himself said that Mhoram was lucky - that the New Lords were "redeemed from despair by the Unbeliever's brave mastery of the Despiser."

Kevin was wrong. He was no longer able to see himself or others for what they truly were after he fell into despair. The new Lords didn't despair, and, so, didn't need redemption from it.

I think it is fair to say that Kevin's comment meant that their despair was inevitable had Covenant failed. So he's not wrong. He just has a very pessimistic way of looking at the whole thing. Or, rather, he's very good at spinning things for Linden because he's trying to get her to doubt Thomas.

MrKABC wrote:High Lord Mhoram, had Covenant not vanquished the Despiser, may well have become a Desecrator just like Kevin. (albeit on a smaller scale)

No. If Donaldson's story tells us anything, he tells us that Mhoram would never despair, or rather, would never let despair choose his actions. That's Mhoram's arc, which Donaldson designed for him. No, Mhoram would fight until he had nothing else to fight with, and then he would hold himself in peace and face the end. And as long as he had any say in it, he'd help the other Lords to do the same.

In [u]The Power That Preserves[/u] was wrote:"We provide the meaning of our own lives. If we serve the Land purely to the furthest limit of our abilities, what more can we ask of ourselves?"

Trevor answered, "Victory, High Lord. If we fail, the Land itself reproaches us. It will be made waste. We are its last preservers."

The force of this thrust smote Mhoram. He found that he still lacked the courage to retort nakedly, Better failure than desecration. Instead, he turned the thrust with a wry smile and said, "The last, Lord Trevor? No."

Good lord! Do you guys have an on line version of the books or something? Where do you get all these quotes?

Nope no online versions of the books,we just know them very well!!!