
And don't worry about my disagreeing. It's all good, clean fun!

*My thanks to Wayfriend for having introduced Pish and tosh at the Watch.
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when Covenant entered Andelain for the second time. And in WGW:ether as crisp as sempiternal spring
Also from WGW, 'The Last Bourne':A greensward as lush as springtime
However, I see these as more metaphors than literal descriptions. The ambience of Andelain having the vibrancy, the potency of springtime regardless of when one visits. He doesn't go so far as to say that the eternal springtime is literal. And don't forget, in The Power That Preserves, the entire land is steeped in a preternatural winter. There is no mention of Andelain being exempt. Surely the Lords would have been aware if it had been? OK, so even if Andelain had been covered in snow at that time it wouldn't have been through natural means, so that doesn't necessarily disqualify the Eternal Spring Theory.It was an avatar of spring, the revel of summer, it was autumn glory and winter peace.
Was he talking about the foliage of the Sunbane here? I kind of doubt it. So do petals typically fall in springtime...?While the world's ruin runs wood and wold,
Sap and bough are grief and grim to me, engreivement fell,
And petals fall without relief
Just want to clarify that when I ask about Eternal Spring, I'm referring to the time period of the 2nd Chrons, when the Sunbane was busily torturing the Land. In LFB it's stated quite clearly that Thomas Covenant arrived in spring, which held sway both within Andelain and without.ur-monkey wrote: One of the lords would surely have commented on it, perhaps during the preternatural winter of the Power That Preserves. Surely Atiaran would have said something about it?
What I'm suggesting is that maybe the "Law" of the seasons could've been bent or tweaked in Andelain by Caer-Caveral, without "breaking" it.CovenantJr wrote:If the seasons are natural - and they are- I don't see why it would be any more difficult for Caer Caveral to access Earthpower in Andelain during winter. It's not he like he has to physically drag it through the frozen soil. It's power, it just comes out. Nothing is more natural than the changing of the seasons, and this natural cycle should itself radiate Earthpower.
You almost convinced me the eternal spring thing is hogwash, Wayfriend. But like CJ said, we're a stubborn lot. Stubborn as half-handed lepers.Wayfriend wrote:I'd like to believe that Andelain was significant in the healing of the Sunbane: that Linden was able to draw on Andelain's natural order to inspire her healing, able to model the healed Land on the example Andelain provided. "She felt in her bones the rhythm of rise and fall, the strict and vital alternation of seasons, summer and winter." Linden absorbed the Sunbane by becoming, in a spiritual way, one with the Land, absorbing the harm of the Sunbane, restoring the founding principals which lied buried under yuck. And Andelain is the heart of the Land; Andelain was a major source of that feeling of what was strict and vital.
If this is so, then Andelain would have natural seasons. The whole thing would not have worked if Andelain was "special" and "magical" rather than the epitome of nature itself.
I think the general view is that it was the spirits of Sunder and Hollian that helped Andelain persevere. They must've taken on some of Caer-Caveral's power. They would be like, um, mini-Forestals? ur-Forestals?jwaneeta wrote:...at the end of WGW, we read about Andelain mustering its resistsance and persevering at its heart.
Hey Lyr, nothing to feel humbled about,We have all read the Tc series so much that all of us find some common link with someone in the story...Aelyria Mireiswen wrote:*blinks* I really have nothing to add here, except to say that I'm going to have to do a lot of reading to catch up with all of you. I feel pretty humbled.
Oh, and I'm leaning toward the different seasons in Andelain. Not that I have anything to base that on except for my reading of the books lo, those many years ago.
~Lyr, humbled newbie
I'm with you on that one! It was definitely spring in LFB wasn't it? However, you coulod make a case that that means there is less evidence for eternal spring. Covenant visited Andelain 3 times - the first time, yeah, it was spring - but hey, so what? It was spring everywhere. The 2nd and 3rd times, during the sunbane, metaphors of spring were used but I couldn't find any definitive statement of springtime.Just want to clarify that when I ask about Eternal Spring, I'm referring to the time period of the 2nd Chrons, when the Sunbane was busily torturing the Land. In LFB it's stated quite clearly that Thomas Covenant arrived in spring, which held sway both within Andelain and without.
Hamako was helping the waynhim to try to keep all of the different species of animals alive underground when they would die under the sunbane; I think he may have considered taking them into andelain, but what if Andelain fell? It as a noble and selfless task, and think he spent his time well.Why was Hamako bothering with his Waynhim project?
Excellent point! There shows the very fact that both Hamako and the Waynhim held hope that the Sunbane would be defeated in the end.And yes I do believe Hamako died well.iquestor wrote:Hamako was helping the waynhim to try to keep all of the different species of animals alive underground when they would die under the sunbane; I think he may have considered taking them into andelain, but what if Andelain fell? It as a noble and selfless task, and think he spent his time well.Why was Hamako bothering with his Waynhim project?
It's not so important to know the Chronicles back to front as to sound like you do.Aelyria Mireiswen wrote:Well, I hope I don't get stoned for saying this. . . but what you are describing is how I am with the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan. I know them front, back, up, down, ect. But even though I really love those books, I know that he has synthesized (okay, sometimes even lifted) concepts from many major works of fantasy from the past 30 years. The point I'm trying to make is that I'd like to get to the point where I can intelligently contribute to the conversations here, as I have in the past on other boards dedicated to other series.
I feel that there is a lot in the chrons that I haven't analyzed completely, and I think that being here will enable me to do that. But I have a long way to go before I will be able to recall what Linden said to Covenant on a certain day. I do have a really good memory, but I think it's been over 7 years since I last read the chronicles all the way through. *shrugs*
Ramble, ramble. .
~Lyr
CovenantJr wrote:It's not so important to know the Chronicles back to front as to sound like you do.Aelyria Mireiswen wrote:Well, I hope I don't get stoned for saying this. . . but what you are describing is how I am with the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan. I know them front, back, up, down, ect. But even though I really love those books, I know that he has synthesized (okay, sometimes even lifted) concepts from many major works of fantasy from the past 30 years. The point I'm trying to make is that I'd like to get to the point where I can intelligently contribute to the conversations here, as I have in the past on other boards dedicated to other series.
I feel that there is a lot in the chrons that I haven't analyzed completely, and I think that being here will enable me to do that. But I have a long way to go before I will be able to recall what Linden said to Covenant on a certain day. I do have a really good memory, but I think it's been over 7 years since I last read the chronicles all the way through. *shrugs*
Ramble, ramble. .
~Lyr
I have read the chrons 8 times now, and learn some new insight every time I browse this forum. I love TC and the story touches me, and many truths on many levels, and we all here love it. If you browse through the dissection forum, you can pick up a lot. But it is not necessary to memorize as you seem to think.feel that there is a lot in the chrons that I haven't analyzed completely, and I think that being here will enable me to do that. But I have a long way to go before I will be able to recall what Linden said to Covenant on a certain day. I do have a really good memory, but I think it's been over 7 years since I last read the chronicles all the way through. *shrugs*
Nah,I never tire of good company,sometimes the best conversations are never spoken........Aelyria Mireiswen wrote:
And I promise I won't be a peeping Lyr. I'll post from time to time, even if just to say that I don't have a lot to say. Yeah. . . you guys will prolly tire of me before long.
~Lyr