Kevin's Watch

Cameraman Jenn wrote:I did say about that I stood corrected and my assumption of people not enjoying the book was wrong.....

I don't think anyone was dismissing what you said Jenn, just clarifying their POV.

You are right about style change over time, and SRD has said (in the GI?) that he's interested in different things now (which partially explains the style change). And I'm all for him doing what ever he wants. One doesn't break new ground until one actually does something different. And, in my opinion, we'll never know if he can pull it off until we read the last page of the last book.

And I think I'll now opt out of this discussion, as I'm biting my tongue: when Fatal Revenant is released then I think I'll be in a better position to explain what I mean about things "singing".


Edit: hey DLB, I agree totally about the prologue (which I thought was brilliant) and, yes, about Stave too! I find his "story" extremely compelling!

I don't think that anyone was dismissing what I said at all in any way. I just wanted to clarify since several people mentioned to me that my assumption of them not "enjoying" the book was wrong and I wanted to make sure I realized my mistake about that and I have since corrected that assumption.

And yes, my friend Seareach, the tongue biting is tough. I have to be careful about everything I say.

variol son wrote:I am well aware of that Avatar.

Just making sure mate.

One thing though, on Dlb's last post...while I agreed that ROTE didn't have the sustained emotional impact of either LFB or TWL, I gotta say it had one real gut-wrenching scene right near the beginning that really pulled me into it...

I speak, of course, of the Fall of the Watch. That was like a kick in the head...I couldn't believe it. I think I read that page 3 or 4 times before I could carry on.

I've always been able to leave the "real-world" prologues though...I tend to just skim them on re-reads, but I will agree also that this most extensive one was probably the most interesting.

Dlb wrote:What I don't understand are the ceasures, and I hope SRD explains them better in FR. I also don't understand Linden's reluctance to use power, when she was so hungry for it in 2nd Chronicles. There's something not quite right about that.

You don't think she learned that reluctance from the outcome of the 2nd Chrons?

--A

How so?

TC was all about control and not using the power in the 2ndCrons, learning control. When he couldn't control it he then wouldn't use the power. and we all know what happened in the end.

Yeah, I thought the lessons Linden learned at the end of the 2ns Chrons were:

1) A big ass Staff of Law can fix the entire Land.

2) A powerful White Gold Ring can stop Lord Foul from destroying time.

Or something like that, heh. I can't remember anymore.

Ironically, even though she's a wuss who's afraid of using power, it's not stopping her from totally screwing things up in the Last Chrons anyway. Heh.-jay

kevinswatch wrote:Ironically, even though she's a wuss who's afraid of using power, it's not stopping her from totally screwing things up in the Last Chrons anyway. Heh.-jay

Sub "he", "him", and "first chrons", and tell me what the difference is.

Probably none.

But we were talking about Linden, not Covenant. And it's more fun to trash on her. Heh.-jay

Yeah, try to stay focused Murrin, (you stinking Linden lover).

At the risk of sounding like a Linden hater, which I am not, I am not so sure she really learned the lessons of the 2nd Chronicles. Wasn't the main lesson that to stop despite you have to be willing to sacrifice yourself for the greater good? Isn't that what she should have learned from both the acts of Brinn and Covenant? However, all she's really done so far is concentrate on getting the means to get back her son. That's not self sacrifice at all. I mean seriously, Jeremiah doesn't even acknowledge her existence or even the world around him to a major extent so who does it really benefit to rescue him? It benefits her, it's for her peace of mind, it's strictly her wants and her needs. That's the polar opposite of self sacrifice in my opinion....

Cameraman Jenn wrote:At the risk of sounding like a Linden hater, which I am not, I am not so sure she really learned the lessons of the 2nd Chronicles. Wasn't the main lesson that to stop despite you have to be willing to sacrifice yourself for the greater good? Isn't that what she should have learned from both the acts of Brinn and Covenant? However, all she's really done so far is concentrate on getting the means to get back her son. That's not self sacrifice at all. I mean seriously, Jeremiah doesn't even acknowledge her existence or even the world around him to a major extent so who does it really benefit to rescue him? It benefits her, it's for her peace of mind, it's strictly her wants and her needs. That's the polar opposite of self sacrifice in my opinion....

Your THOOLAH tee-shirt and membership certificate are in the mail!

And here I thought for sure that Cail would be the first one to be all over my last post....

Seriously, I don't hate Linden, I am just a little frustrated by her at this point in the series....

Cameraman Jenn wrote:And here I thought for sure that Cail would be the first one to be all over my last post....

Seriously, I don't hate Linden, I am just a little frustrated by her at this point in the series....

Hello.
Just a heads up about THOOLAH or "The Holy Order Of Linden Avery Haters".
It's just a goof really.
Jay and I started bad mouthing Linden a while ago (ok, for good reasons! She ***sucks***. BUT she's nessesary because she makes everyone else look good, I think) and thus began a big light hearted "debate" between those that like Linden and those that don't.
Jay made up THOOLAH and someone else made up HOL "House of Linden" for the lovers.
It was really fun for a while.
Everyone dropped it but me and occasionaly Jay, lol.

(If I ever get to an Elohimfest though I'm making THOOLAH tee-shirts!)

Sorry, I was busy with work.

You've actually hit the nail on the head Jenn. Linden's motivation is completely different in Runes, and quite frankly it seems like a mundane storyline. There's no "zaz" to it.

I dunno. I'm gonna start rereading the damn thing tonight and see if it sits any better this time, but between the time travel, Anele (the new Nassic), and Esmer, I really don't think I'm going to feel any differently about it.

Cail, I am glad you have decided to give ROTE another shot. The only thing I can say is that it shouldn't be read with comparison to the other books in mind. Put it all aside and read it for itself and see if that helps. I am really interested in hearing what you have to say about it....

The problem is, I don't think that's possible. I read WGW in 1983, and the whole series stuck with me so much that 21 years later I was still rereading the series and felt compelled to join the Watch (and spend a ridiculous amount of time posting). I can't help but compare ROTE (heh...boy, I just noticed that....I think that's the definition of irony there) to TWL.

Or to any of the books. As I read each one I instantly fell in love with it (except for TOT, and I completely blame Linden for that). That just didn't happen with Runes. Now maybe it's because I'm 20+ years older now, but I still felt that excitement and sense of wonder when I read The Gap two years ago.

THOOLAH shall live on forever!



And YES, we do need t-shirts, HLT.

I think THOOLAH needs to set up a T-shirt Exploratory Committee to get on that right away.

It would be a great way to meet SRD...wearing a shirt that proclaimed how much one of his main characters sucked. Heh.

-jay

<sigh> And things had been so peaceful around here for a while!

Dang, looks as if my latest comment here from this morning was deleted or something. I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed Runes knowing that SRD would not be able to top TLW, which is my fav book of any fant series. I thought the last 3rd of Runes as just as good as anything else he's written. And it was the best cliffhanger of any SRD book or any book, for that matter, that I've read. I hooted WOW when I read that last sentence.

Avatar wrote:You don't think she learned that reluctance from the outcome of the 2nd Chrons?

dlbpharmd wrote:How so?

In the Second Chronicles, Linden was hungry for power deep down inside. She thought the answer was simple: get the power. But she learned, from Covenant's example, and from her experiences with possession, that it's not so simple. She also learned that she was not ready for power, not ready for the cost, the guilt, or the responsibility, until she surpassed the legacy of her parents. She didn't get to the right place inside, with the right answer, until the end of WGW.

But she has fallen away from who she was at the end of WGW. Somehow, after ten years, she doesn't yet truly believe that the ring is hers, that the wild magic is hers. This creates a bit of reluctance, but it would be more aptly called resistance in my opinion. Sometimes, she wants to use the power... but can't.

This is another thing that disappoints me.