Kevin's Watch

I'm always happy to see that a protest is going forward. I'm even happier when I see that it's against nobs like Scientologists. Good work.

The London protesters had a sense of humour.


(*Point left* "This is a Horse!" *Point right* "This is a Cult!")

*nod*

Nice write up.

Okay, now I wish I was part of the V mob.

I guess I don't know what all the Scientologists do, but shouldn't they be allowed to practice whatever freaky things they want as long as nobody gets hurt? And the person who did die and the family is blaming Scientology, not quite sure how it is different than whatever Christian group it is that denies their followers the ability to go to the hospital. Don't get me wrong, I think Scientology is pretty weird and don't get why anybody buys into it, but I don't really see them doing anything more wrong than other accepted organized religions.


Or should I move this to the tank?

You're free to bring up whatever you want in the Tank.

However, if this thread gets put in the Tank, I would like to say out of courtesy to EL and all here that I will not follow it.

As to your question: "shouldn't they be allowed to practice...as long as nobody gets hurt?" Well, I suppose that is one of the core issues surrounding Them. I will only speak for myself, but I am of the view that They have indeed inflicted harm on others, whether physical or psychological. Frankly, this is old news to me. A documentary on the CBC newsmagazine The Fifth Estate exposed the cult for what it was years ago, and interviewed people who barely escaped its clutches, and still lived in fear that the cult would come knocking on their door to take them back.

As for whether They are doing anything more wrong than other accepted organized religions, as you put it, that is also a valid question. You could certainly bring that up in the Close. My position is that I'm wary of any secretive profit-driven organization that claims to offer salvation. The cult that we are talking about here is maybe just the most ruthless example of that kind of organization.

But I'll turn it over to EL, as I think he would be more eloquent and knowledgeable on the subject.

Yeah, I think my response to that would probably have to go into the Tank as it would involve lots of lefty "religious right" bashing. Probably best to not get started.

I will admit I too am mostly uninformed on the Scientologists, other than seeing Tom Cruise jump over couches and having read Dianetics years ago. So, my gut instinct is similar to Cag's. Without knowing of the harm they have inflicted, I am more of a "live and let live, religious rights" leftist. But then, I have always said my politics are to the left of Trotsky's.

However, I am willing to be informed, and perhaps convinced, otherwise. But, I also won't follow this thread into the 'tank. Into the Close, no problem. But not the 'tank.

Well, Scientology at least claims its a religion, so should it go in the close?

On another note, I think that there are probably many Scientologists who believe in what they believe without hurting or wishing hurt upon any others. But just like any other large group of people, there are always some who take things too far, or change their beliefs into something different.

I am not for "destroying" or "removing" Scientology as a whole, any more than I would be for "destroying" or "removing" Agnosticism as a whole. What should happen, is the people who commit these crimes should be apprehended and punished accordingly.

Balon wrote:Well, Scientology at least claims its a religion, so should it go in the close?

Precisely.

Balon wrote:On another note, I think that there are probably many Scientologists who believe in what they believe without hurting or wishing hurt upon any others. But just like any other large group of people, there are always some who take things too far, or change their beliefs into something different.

I am not for "destroying" or "removing" Scientology as a whole, any more than I would be for "destroying" or "removing" Agnosticism as a whole. What should happen, is the people who commit these crimes should be apprehended and punished accordingly.

*nodding*

Without knowing more details of what Scientology teaches, or even "preaches," this is pretty much my attitude as well.

Eloquently put, Balon.

Guys, this isn't about destroying Scientology as a religion. They can practice whatever the hell they want. This is about destroying the Church of Scientology: the for-profit corporation that masks itself as a religion to scam people out of their money.

Emotional Leper wrote:Guys, this isn't about destroying Scientology as a religion. They can practice whatever the hell they want. This is about destroying the Church of Scientology: the for-profit corporation that masks itself as a religion to scam people out of their money.

But isn't that the same thing? I mean, if you destroyed the Church it would just be rebuilt again by the beilievers who think in terms of crime.

Balon wrote:

Emotional Leper wrote:Guys, this isn't about destroying Scientology as a religion. They can practice whatever the hell they want. This is about destroying the Church of Scientology: the for-profit corporation that masks itself as a religion to scam people out of their money.

But isn't that the same thing? I mean, if you destroyed the Church it would just be rebuilt again by the beilievers who think in terms of crime.

There are Scientologists who are not in the Church of Scientology. They're collectively refered to as the Free Zone.

The "Church of Scientology" proper is for profit business that charges people for their brand of salvation. If the Catholic Church required you to cough up money before offering you confession, or letting you read their holy books, or even telling you what their religion is really about, they'd lose their status as a tax exempt religion in the States.

The Church of Scientology routinely sues people who disclose its inner secrets, under the idea that their true beliefs and their holy texts are "Trade Secrets" -- Religions do not have trade secrets. Corporations do.

Religions do not force you to break all contact with friends and family members who are critical of your religion.

Religions do not sue, blackmail and otherwise force their critics into silence.

Google or Wiki:

Lisa McPherson
Operation Snow White
Noah Lottick
Fair Game

I have to agree with EL on this one. . . no other religion can get away with these things.

Emotional Leper wrote:

Balon wrote:

Emotional Leper wrote:Guys, this isn't about destroying Scientology as a religion. They can practice whatever the hell they want. This is about destroying the Church of Scientology: the for-profit corporation that masks itself as a religion to scam people out of their money.

But isn't that the same thing? I mean, if you destroyed the Church it would just be rebuilt again by the beilievers who think in terms of crime.

There are Scientologists who are not in the Church of Scientology. They're collectively refered to as the Free Zone.

The "Church of Scientology" proper is for profit business that charges people for their brand of salvation. If the Catholic Church required you to cough up money before offering you confession, or letting you read their holy books, or even telling you what their religion is really about, they'd lose their status as a tax exempt religion in the States.

The Church of Scientology routinely sues people who disclose its inner secrets, under the idea that their true beliefs and their holy texts are "Trade Secrets" -- Religions do not have trade secrets. Corporations do.

Religions do not force you to break all contact with friends and family members who are critical of your religion.

Religions do not sue, blackmail and otherwise force their critics into silence.

Google or Wiki:

Lisa McPherson
Operation Snow White
Noah Lottick
Fair Game

I see what you meant now.

As long as there are no attacks being made on the Free Zone, then I have no qualm.

"Curiouser and curiouser..."

How have they gotten away with such for so long?

Menolly wrote:"Curiouser and curiouser..."

How have they gotten away with such for so long?

They have large amounts of money, and lots of famous, influential people are Scientologists.

Also, they hide behind the aegis of religion. And they probably still have blackmail material on the Feds, just as they keep black mail material on their own people.

Creepy, I tell you, creepy!

i agree with EL here. scientology must be destroyed. the first step is to get the us government to stop treating it like a religion. the best way is to educate people about what scientology really is.

Yeah, thanks EL. I didn't know. And I'm a fan of conspiracies.

We just need to sick the Flying Spaghetti Monster on them. It's noodly appendages will take care of them.