Kevin's Watch

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote:You have to assume that he was a god of some kind, and just appeared as a beggar to Covenant and Linden.
if you take his word in The Power That Preserves that Covenant was neath death from the antivenin, how then did Covenant survive.
And you don't have to take the beggar's word. the nurse and Doctors seem very surprised that he is suddenly hale and hearty.
My thing with the guy in the ochre (by that I always took to mean brown) robe, is that if he had appeared in majestic splendor, with perhaps a glowing, golden crown, Covenant would have known for sure he had gone nuts.
He also fits the archetypal image of a voice in the wilderness.
But the thing that always gets me is that the beggar appears to Covenant in the beginning and in the end of First Chronicles.
The beggar appears to Linden in the beginning of second Chronicles, but not at the end. However, Covenant appears to her at the end of second chronicles, in that same kind of "farewell" mode.

Spoiler

And nobody appears to Linden in the beginning of Final Chronicles.

(in bold) - Dang, there you go with a spoiler comment. j/k

(the moderator didn't think it was a joke-so I covered it up-d)

I have both of the new books for the Last Chronicles, (one of them is the British release, in fact) but haven't had time to read either of them - maybe I should just stay away from this Website until I do <GRin>

I've finished the first Chonicles and getting onto The Wounded Land, first few chapters already. It's all coming back in a flood, from the first time I read them.

As for the "man-in-the-ochre-robe" ... We all have to know it really is the being who calls himself the Creator of the World that Covemant ends up in when he falls thru the earth (as it were) - and back on Main Street in the Town where he has chosen to live out his days as a Leper - the man in the robe does have "some" leverage - but it has to be in-direct, remember? The same goes for Lord Foul, as well ... remember the fire and the devil (satanic) ritual he witnessed? That was Foul being indirect as well, correct? Tit-for-tat? when you go back and read the final chapter in the 3rd book (1st Chronicles) he gets very detailed in what he cannot do, over & over, in fact.

Call it an Avatar if you like - but, it's really him affecting the outcome by giving Covenant the choice(s) .... and letting the chips fall where they may. Lord Foul indirectly uses satanic fear and one could say he has more leverage to affect the outcomes... but, he is also the one who is trapped in the Land of Lord Mohram.

The Creator - for lack of a better word - is who has his hands tied the most. Faith? I'd say so. Yet, he never sways from making sure Covenant has "choices" ... still with the indirect cause & affect protocol being used .... ever faithful to his Rules in that Universe. Covenant could have chosen something else at the end of the First Chronicles.

Just an opinion...........

I say that the Creator is an avatar because I don't think he is a person from Covenant's world. He's "larger" than that. No one from Covenant's world could create the Arch of Time. And if the Creator were from Covenant's world, so would Lord Foul be. Finally, he's described as a being who lives outside of time and space.

But there's a guy in an ochre robe.

If he can't be the creator, then you could maybe say he's the Creator's agent - someone mortal who is in contact with the Creator.

But when Covenant was between worlds -- outside of time and space, maybe -- the Creator spoke with that old man's voice.

And in TWL the old man in the ochre robe seemed to appear and disappear into and out of thin air.

So I think that the Creator is able to create and embody some sort of temporary physical form to act in Covenant's world. Hence: avatar. Although he might be posessing some very old dude who can run fast and hide good.

wayfriend wrote:I say that the Creator is an avatar because I don't think he is a person from Covenant's world. He's "larger" than that. No one from Covenant's world could create the Arch of Time. And if the Creator were from Covenant's world, so would Lord Foul be. Finally, he's described as a being who lives outside of time and space.

But there's a guy in an ochre robe.

If he can't be the creator, then you could maybe say he's the Creator's agent - someone mortal who is in contact with the Creator.

But when Covenant was between worlds -- outside of time and space, maybe -- the Creator spoke with that old man's voice.

And in TWL the old man in the ochre robe seemed to appear and disappear into and out of thin air.

So I think that the Creator is able to create and embody some sort of temporary physical form to act in Covenant's world. Hence: avatar. Although he might be posessing some very old dude who can run fast and hide good.

agreed. good post.

Didn't I just say that?

Didn't I just say that?

Yes, you did-- twice.

GothicGypsy wrote:The Elohim as a people are fickle; some of them rise above that and display knowledge that is more far-sighted (e.g. the Guardian of the One Tree). Perhaps the Man in the Ochre Robe is one of the wiser ones.

Are you saying the Gaurdian of TOT was Elohim ? I thought the first gaurdian was

Spoiler

an Insequent,and the most powerful of them all,at that.

The second was just a Hurachai.

Is that not made clear at least twice in FR.

Spoiler

Via the Hurachai,and the Insequent themselves

oh man..i shouldnt read spoilers, but one word tells me alot. not enough to spoil it but enough to make me say WTF?? now i want to read it more than ever..but i will restrain myself. i feel a bit of vertigo coming on