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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:24 am
by Bran Pendragon
Despite the fact that Troy states he worked for the US Dept. of Defence and is such a archetype American?
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:55 am
by Despiser Dave
Great post, ninjaboy! I'm going to start trying to imagine TC with an Australian accent.
I've noticed since my last post that one or two more people have said they imagined Troy as African American. How many is that now? I didn't go back and count, but it's a handful. Giving it some more thought, I have to agree with the notion of identifying his sunglasses with a couple of American icons (Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder). I've tried, but I can't think of any Caucasian sightless people from the era with whom I would/could have identified Troy. Elton John was always known for his glasses, but somehow that just doesn't work...
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:55 am
by Holsety
I posted this in the GI. Hopefully he will respond in a few weeks!
Dear Mr Donaldson,
Hile Troy is black. Kevin's Watch has decided this. Since you wrote the books I thought you should be informed of this detail in case Caer Caveral should return once again. I think it's important that an author should know the races of his characters, so now you know thanks to me.
Despiser Dave: OK, here's a rather oddball first post for me...
I first read the Thomas Covenant series back in the early 1980's. I think I was about 12 when I read the 1st Chronicles, and for some reason I got the notion in my head that Hile Troy is black. I never wondered about it at the time. I just thought he was.
Rereading the series a few years later, I realized that there is nothing in the text that would necessarily make me think this. I'm reading the 1st Chronicles again and still trying to figure out where I got the idea. Maybe it was his name? Does anyone else have any thoughts as to why I would think that Troy is black? I guess there's nothing in the text that explicitly says he wasn't...
I personally think it gives his character a bit more texture, so I'll always think of Troy as African American every time I read The Illearth War.
...
One connection I can think of, if you read the book for the fist time after Star Trek the Next Generation came out, you may make a subconscious link to Geordi because Troy's black sunglasses are referred to often. I read it in the early 80's though. I guess I'll do a search and read some of the past posts.
Danlo: It's been discussed a number of times here-I too have always thought he was black-a number of us tryed to find references of the fact, but we never could. We definately "felt" it.
SleeplessOne: how strange; I also imagined Hile Troy to be an African American when I first read TIW, only to realise when I read it again years later that there was no mention of his ethnicity whatsoever in the actual text - spooky ! Shocked
BeyondtheBreach: Same here - however, I didn't imagine him as African-American the first time I read the series (I would have been about 13). It wasn't till the 2nd time at around age 19 that I thought this . . . I think that there was some reference or description that I didn't get the first time as a kid as I remember stopping to edit my mental image of Troy.
Of course, I can't remember what it was now . . .
Syl: "What do you mean, I'm not white? Why didn't you tell me this before?"
UrDead: Maybe the vague feelings come from today media. The portrait of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder. Both being blind, well in the public eye, both musical geniuses and very accomplished entertainters.
Hile Troy connection would be blind and a genius for a think tank.
The connection is vague but people tend to assoicate book characters with public figures. Both Ray and Stevie were in the public's eye during the release of the second book and still are.(RIP Ray) And naturally people tend to gravitate the real person to the character.
Jwaneeta: I never pictured him as black, but now that I think about it I can understand why some people do. Remember that part in TIW, when Troy regains consciousness in Doriendor Corishev and those Foul's Army guys attack him?
One of them asks mockingly, "Is it an ur-vile?" because of Troy's eyelessness. But don't ur-viles also have black skin? Maybe that mental image makes a lot of people subconsciously assume that Troy does too? Or close to it?
Hm, I rather like the idea. Now I'm envisioning a whole new Hile Troy. Bonus! Very Happy Yes, I know I'm crazy for liking him, but I do. Sue me. Wink
~~~
I thought you would like to know.
(In fact a number of members are somewhat skeptical).
Sincerely,
Holsety.
EDIT-I believe covenant is a pacific islander.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:38 am
by Despiser Dave
Hile Troy and Tom Covenant in a rare, candid moment:
please ignore the futuristic weapon
Hmmm, Will Smith as HT in the Covenant movie. Hmmm...
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:34 am
by Holsety
That "futuristic weapon" is just the white gold in a special form.
The two are wearing sunbaneglasses to help them resist it. Don't ask me why HT is still alive and non-forestally w/ the sunbane around.
Hile Troy
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:32 pm
by mortem
He's like the supremacist in the Dave Chappelle skit!
Seriously, I always pictured Hile Troy as middle-aged, mostly bald with fringes of black hair in a horseshoe around his head. I'm not sure why, but maybe I was picturing his seeing through the top of his head and hair would be in the way.
But that wouldn't make sense, as he had stated that the sunglasses don't obscure his vision (nothing within 6 inches of his face does). But, one doesn't get to choose how their mind's eye works either!
Re: Hile Troy
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:23 pm
by jwaneeta
mortem wrote:He's like the supremacist in the Dave Chappelle skit!
Seriously, I always pictured Hile Troy as middle-aged, mostly bald with fringes of black hair in a horseshoe around his head. I'm not sure why, but maybe I was picturing his seeing through the top of his head and hair would be in the way.
*gasp* No, no, no, he looks like Sawyer on
Lost. Only with shades.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:28 pm
by Holsety
He's like the supremacist in the Dave Chappelle skit!
He hates ur-viles...BUT HE REALLY IS ONE! Not...
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:19 am
by jwaneeta
Holsety wrote:He's like the supremacist in the Dave Chappelle skit!
He hates ur-viles...BUT HE REALLY IS ONE! Not...
Subtle. I see what you did there.
Re: Hile Troy
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:47 am
by deer of the dawn
jwaneeta wrote:mortem wrote:He's like the supremacist in the Dave Chappelle skit!
Seriously, I always pictured Hile Troy as middle-aged, mostly bald with fringes of black hair in a horseshoe around his head. I'm not sure why, but maybe I was picturing his seeing through the top of his head and hair would be in the way.
*gasp* No, no, no, he looks like Sawyer on
Lost. Only with shades.
If he's anyone from Lost it should be Jack.
Re: Hile Troy
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:59 pm
by jwaneeta
deer of the dawn wrote:If he's anyone from Lost it should be Jack.
I have absolutely no objection to that. *envisions*
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:20 pm
by matrixman
Holsety wrote:I posted this in the GI. Hopefully he will respond in a few weeks!
Dear Mr Donaldson,
Hile Troy is black. Kevin's Watch has decided this.
Excuse me?
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:25 pm
by danlo
whoo boy!
Re: Hile Troy
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:22 pm
by wayfriend
deer of the dawn wrote:If he's anyone from Lost it should be Jack.
Jack has a wiser-than-his-years look, which is the antithesis of Troy. Sawyer looks like a tough s.o.b., which is the other antithesis of Troy. If there's anyone on Lost whom we should cast as Hile Troy, it's Jeremy Davies. He's got that brilliant geek boy look which is what Hile Troy is all about.
It's hard to get a pick of him clean shaven ...
You might recognize him more readily here ...
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:03 am
by perpetualchange
matrixman wrote:Nope, never imagined Hile Troy as African American.
Me neither,????
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:57 am
by Holsety
matrixman wrote:Holsety wrote:I posted this in the GI. Hopefully he will respond in a few weeks!
Dear Mr Donaldson,
Hile Troy is black. Kevin's Watch has decided this.
Excuse me?
It was a joke
Like I said at the end, there are in fact those who are somewhat skeptical of how true this is.
MOSTLY BECAUSE THEY ARE HERETICS
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:17 am
by [Syl]
I was just offended (not really) that you included the lame Richard Pryor line but left out the slightly more pertinent analysis.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:53 am
by Groovy
You know, for some reason I always pictured Troy as looking a bit like Snake Plisskin with sunglasses.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:04 am
by matrixman
Sorry for being tight-assed about that, Holsety. It's just that a blanket statement like that can't help but rub me the wrong way. (See my post in the Unfettered thread where I say I sometimes take things way too seriously in discussions about the Chronicles.)
I could see you meant that letter as a joke, and I hope SRD gets a kick out of it.
But I'll just repeat my own view: at no point anywhere in TIW did I ever get the faintest whiff of a notion that Hile Troy was "African-American."
Wayfriend: inspired choice in Jeremy Davies! I agree, he looks the part.
Groovy: sorry, I think Snake has too much of a seasoned look. The whole point of Troy (in my opinion) is that he's an inexperienced puppy. Whereas Snake is more like a veteran hound, who'd be unimpressed by Troy's eager yelping. (Snakes and dogs...I'm mixing up my animal metaphors...)
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:03 am
by jwaneeta
matrixman wrote:
Groovy: sorry, I think Snake has too much of a seasoned look. The whole point of Troy (in my opinion) is that he's an inexperienced puppy. Whereas Snake is more like a veteran hound, who'd be unimpressed by Troy's eager yelping. (Snakes and dogs...I'm mixing up my animal metaphors...)
Yes, but... Snake's hot, and isn't that the most important thing, in the end?
What are a few years when hotness is your errand? Troy was hot and Caer-Caveral was the ne plus ultra of hotness. I personally can accept any face as Troy/Caer-Caveral, of any color or ethnicity, as long as it's a hot, hot face.
However, since he's got no eyes, any actor cast would have to have an exceptionally fine jawline and expressive mouth. And of course the strength of character to take on a self-effacing and utterly thankless role.
Yes, I'm mostly kidding. And yes, I have thought entirely too much about this.
Erm, takes all kinds to make a world, I guess?
(God, anything, anything to divert my attention from this cliffhanging Dem primary! I'm a wreck. *gnaws fingernails* )