Lost Season 5 - Spoilers Inbound

[Worm of Despite]

If that was a young Widmore on the island, was that a young Mom Faraday walking around with the rifle?

He did say she seemed mighty familiar. And she's hot, eh. Still, I think it's Mrs. Hawkins. Then again, the blonde chick might be Mrs. Hawkins.

[sindatur]

If that was a young Widmore on the island, was that a young Mom Faraday walking around with the rifle?

Yea, many people believe that Ellie is Eloise Hawking (Desmond's Ring Lady that taught him about time travel) and to take it further many believe that Ms. Eloise Hawking is Daniel Faraday's mother.

[lurch]

~My Lost Theory~

This is Lost in a nutshell. Hurley is the the future end result of all the characters, and through their paths they all meld into him in the end; due to their bad pasts and terrible deeds they become one, monstrous-fat crazy guy.

So basically Hurley is the keystone to the Lost arch.

Why else does he see the numbers?

He IS the Island

Hurley, six letters, Island six letters.

Lost four letters, Hugo four letters.

Reyes five letters, Jacob five letters.

God loves you as He loved Jacob

Since Hurley is the manifestation of Jacob, God will look over him throughout the series, and he will survive to become the island's spirit. Also--also--Hurley is the one who saw Jacob when even Locke couldn't. Obviously, Jaco is a manifestation of Hurley's mind--the mind that made the island and all the people who become him.

Why else is he seeing all the dead people? He made them up! They aren't real. None of the characters are real. They are all a solipsistic delusion created by Hurley, as is the entire manifestation of the island. In essence, Lost is the spiritual struggles of Hugo (four letters, remember) and how he overcomes them.

Great observation LF!...You think its Hugo huh. True,,Hugo has the most in common with the Nadja character of Breton. But..there is commonality there between Kate and Nadja and well..all of the Losties. Hugo as Humor, Irony, has always been a good fit but much more than that ..excuse the pun,, he isn't well rounded enough to be the All.

Like Breton's Nadja,,the center,, the keystone of the arc...is actually the audience.,,the individual perceiving. Breton's Nadja is just a metaphor for a liberated mind. So..one can see,,thru the interactive nature of this show,,message boards, podcasts, etc etc...that there is a radical subversion potential of this show..hence the delicate tip toeing around any answer as to what is this show really about. Surrealism as put forth by its originators,,was and to some,,remains a radical, revolutionary way of thinking and perceiving.

I have had vision of all the characters coming together to form a unified One by end of show ,,also. The crash of 815 being like a mirror of one's self crashing into many splintered pieces and each episode,, a re building of that reflected image,,based on Truths discovered in that episode. Perhaps the pilot , maybe Jack since he is the Fix It guy..but some how , no matter who it is..has to turn around and look directly into the camera,,perhaps with a very close up of the person's eye,,and the basic question of Who Am I is asked and answered.

[Cagliostro]

Actually, the Hugo theory has been kicking around for a while. And it seemed like the show addressed it in the episode "Dave" during season 2. The producers have long ago said it is nobody's dream and that there will not be a cop-out like that in the end.
It's a good and solid theory, and one that my friend had right before the airing of "Dave" which he missed and I had to fill him in on. But I think it can be said that all the characters exist (in a manner of speaking), according to the creators of the show.

[Worm of Despite]

Actually I was just kidding and was literally trying to make the most crackpot theory off the top of my head. I'm honestly shocked to see it's already been put forth!

But, I agree with you lurch that in some sense there may be a theme of one-ness at the end. Not sure if it will be so literal that it'll come down to one person, but yes, everything is going from splintered to united (slowly but surely).

[Cagliostro]

Actually I was just kidding and was literally trying to make the most crackpot theory off the top of my head. I'm honestly shocked to see it's already been put forth!

Well, the numbers thing was a little kookier than most (meaning the number of letters in his name, etc), but it does make a sort of sense that Hurley is still in the nuthouse and imagining it all. And besides, Lost is a haven for crackpot theories. I've heard some real nutty ones.

[lurch]

Actually, the Hugo theory has been kicking around for a while. And it seemed like the show addressed it in the episode "Dave" during season 2. The producers have long ago said it is nobody's dream and that there will not be a cop-out like that in the end.
It's a good and solid theory, and one that my friend had right before the airing of "Dave" which he missed and I had to fill him in on. But I think it can be said that all the characters exist (in a manner of speaking), according to the creators of the show.

Well Cag..i don't mean to argue the point, ,,it is just a matter of interpreting what was said,,but allow me to simply suggest...A question was put to Damon And Carlton at ..maybe it was the 1st comix con..anyway..the question was if Lost was like such and such movie,,where at the end the various characters are revealed to be just parts of a whole person,,I forget the name of the movie,,it wasn't a successful movie,, but Damon's reply was interesting,, He said, no, i didn't like that movie,,I saw it and didn't like it all....Now many have taken that reply as a refute of the concept,,but to me,,alls hes saying is he didn't like what the producers and director did with the concept. Now i've argued with many on this issue, so i really do not want to any more. I am putting it out there just for something to mull over. The idea of a character " coming apart",,nervous breakdown,,etc and we seeing reality thru its sckizoid eyes is not entirely out of the possibilities. Damon's "nondenial denial" sounded too much like alot of stuff from our government at that time,,so i take it with a grain of salt....There is the possibility that all of them are " real " characters..but we see them thru a insane person's eyes...It was Carlton who said just a couple of years ago.." of course its all metaphor.."

[sindatur]

Actually, the Hugo theory has been kicking around for a while. And it seemed like the show addressed it in the episode "Dave" during season 2. The producers have long ago said it is nobody's dream and that there will not be a cop-out like that in the end.
It's a good and solid theory, and one that my friend had right before the airing of "Dave" which he missed and I had to fill him in on. But I think it can be said that all the characters exist (in a manner of speaking), according to the creators of the show.

Well Cag..i don't mean to argue the point, ,,it is just a matter of interpreting what was said,,but allow me to simply suggest...A question was put to Damon And Carlton at ..maybe it was the 1st comix con..anyway..the question was if Lost was like such and such movie,,where at the end the various characters are revealed to be just parts of a whole person,,I forget the name of the movie,,it wasn't a successful movie,, but Damon's reply was interesting,, He said, no, i didn't like that movie,,I saw it and didn't like it all....Now many have taken that reply as a refute of the concept,,but to me,,alls hes saying is he didn't like what the producers and director did with the concept. Now i've argued with many on this issue, so i really do not want to any more. I am putting it out there just for something to mull over. The idea of a character " coming apart",,nervous breakdown,,etc and we seeing reality thru its sckizoid eyes is not entirely out of the possibilities. Damon's "nondenial denial" sounded too much like alot of stuff from our government at that time,,so i take it with a grain of salt....There is the possibility that all of them are " real " characters..but we see them thru a insane person's eyes...It was Carlton who said just a couple of years ago.." of course its all metaphor.."

Interesting Lurch. I haven't seen that quote before. From what I recall, there was possibly an earlier quote that denied several "non-real" things including "Not a dream, Not all in someone's mind, it's all real, and these things are really happening to these people" (This is of course paraphrased, and could imply a wrong context of a slippery answer). I'll have to try and remember to check for this possibly earlier quote (On the other hand, they directly denied time travel, so that may have been a slippery answer, but, I saw a quote given by someone fairly reliable, so I'm pretty certain they outright denied time travel early on)

[Cagliostro]

I'm mainly going by what they have said on the DVDs. But I've heard it and read it countless times.

[wayfriend]

Interesting artical about Lost today. There're no plot spoilers, but I did spoilerize the statement that indicates what "genre" the "answer" to Lost will be. Maybe.

Where 'Lost' intends to go

... Her costar Matthew Fox has another, more optimistic take. "It feels very different from what 'Lost' has felt like in the past, but in a really good way," says the actor. "There will be many, many answers, lots of things from past seasons that left the audience thinking, 'That's never going to pay off' -- but it does, in really cool ways that make you go 'Holy s---!' "

Spoiler

Of course, "Lost" has always been pretty off its rocker. Ghosts. Locke's legs. Smokey the monster. Those who've hoped "Lost" would avoid sci-fi answers may have been fooling themselves. "Honestly," says Lindelof, "the non-genre answer just isn't that interesting."

And now it's clear the time-travel element of the Island (beyond just the flashbacks/flash-forwards) has been part of the show from the beginning. ... [link]

[Zarathustra]

So nanite swarm for the smoke monster might still be in play?

[Cagliostro]

Yep, as well as midichlorians for Walt and such.

[Zarathustra]

I never had a problem with midichloreans. I thought the "force" was a bit hokey.

[lurch]

..well i recall the Time travel denial a while ago..and i also remember at end of last season,,where both said that they would build up the sci-fi angle in season 5,,and utterly crush it in season 6.So,, the most credence I can give Damon and Carlton is the same as a grain of salt.

There definitely seems an increase in media " hype" lately. For a 5th season show ,,its doing okay per episode depending on how you measure..neilsen, tivo,,etc blah blah blah..10 million plus..The only problem is things are being said like,,C&D said recently about the Losties all getting back together again on the Island,," Nobody will ever imagine how we do it..." Sounds like a challenge...a very slick marketing hook,,to me.

The problem with these types of shows..think of The Prisoner..is how do you end it...and once you announce the goal of ending..how do you keep the audience involved all the way to the last episode..I mean.. you know everyone is going to be there at the Last Epiisode,,,its just keeping them involved until you get there...Think of MASH..I know I did not see every episode,,but I did see the 1st run of Last Episode. So,, LOST has its challenges before it fades off into the sunset. Tie too many loose ends together before the end and they may regret it. Seems to me,, Smokey will be the last mystery solved..A Peace has to be made with that monster..And..if it turns out that its nothing more than nano bots..so much for an imagination challenge from the two clowns, C&D.

[Zarathustra]

.if it turns out that its nothing more than nano bots..so much for an imagination challenge from the two clowns, C&D.

Seriously? That's like saying that if humans turn out to be nothing more than material beings, then all the mystery goes out of them.

I think you are underestimating matter. (See my recent post in the Close about out of body experiences).

I don't believe that humans are merely organic computers, but I do think consciousness arises out of the brain, out of processes of matter. If consciousness itself can arise out of matter on the micro level, then there is plenty of room for the imagination in a cloud of nano bots . . . especially if they can access and interface with consciousness at this mind/matter "divide." In fact, I believe this mind/body dualism is the source of all our mysteries.

The fact that matter can transcend itself is the greatest mystery of all. How "micro" can arrange itself to "holistic" is something on par with a cloud of nano bots acting as a single force, and interfacing with sentient beings on both physical levels (dragging them down holes) and mental levels (accessing their memories).

The best science fiction is actually fantasy, and vice versa.

[Cagliostro]

I never had a problem with midichloreans. I thought the "force" was a bit hokey.

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Wait...what are we talking about again?

I was a little disappointed with the telling of Danielle's story last night. I wish that they had done it as a flashback rather than the way they did it. It's annoying that they set up an interesting character with a backstory I've wanted to hear about, and then just kill her off quickly and rush through her backstory. Oh well.

[Zarathustra]

I thought the midichloreans as a "conduit" for the Force was no more "hard s.f." than the idea that Jedis were "conduits" for the Force. Just because the story moved the level of explanation down one notch from people to microorganisms didn't take the mystical wonder out of it--it just spread it around more.

And back to my point about brains . . . if consciousness can be produced by individual brain cells--and no one thinks this robs mind of any "magic"--then the Force being produced by individual midichloreans doesn't either. The only way you can hold the conclusion that there is no "magic" in matter is to suppose that we are nothing more than organic computers . . . and at that point, it doesn't matter how much magic there is in the world outside us, if we're not human enough to partake in it.

[sindatur]

I never had a problem with midichloreans. I thought the "force" was a bit hokey.

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Wait...what are we talking about again?

I was a little disappointed with the telling of Danielle's story last night. I wish that they had done it as a flashback rather than the way they did it. It's annoying that they set up an interesting character with a backstory I've wanted to hear about, and then just kill her off quickly and rush through her backstory. Oh well.

I have a suspicion that they will revisit it again, from another angle in a future episode. True it was a bit of a bummer that the time spent on it was so short, but, I'm OK with that if they expand some more later.

[Cagliostro]

On the topic at hand - yeah, Sindatur, I hope they do revisit it. But I suspect all we'll get is a bit more about Smokie.

And Malik, you really want to pick a fight about midichloreans, don't you?

Well, we can take this over to the Star Wars forum, if you'd like. I don't have much to say other than I think it is a pet peeve of mine when films that made a good movie involving something that doesn't make a lot of sense but is cool try to explain what didn't make sense that was formerly cool, and usually they kill it for me. See Highlander 2 for a prime example of this. But it is all aesthetics, and it is impossible to have an argument about what is better when it all falls down to that. Hell, that discussion could be a whole other thread.

[wayfriend]

Yeah, the told Danielle's story a bit fast. But if they're trying to answer everything, and they have a whole lot to answer, and not much time, then maybe they gotta short shrift some stuff to do justice to some other stuff.

I forgive.

I don't know about the nano-bots. But I bet the smoke monster comes from the future to be sure.

Speak of the devil, it was back last nite!

It was good to hear the old beast, roaring in the jungle and scaring the bejeez out of everyone again!!!! Good times.