Kevin's Watch

The pirate comic is going to be on the DVD as an animated feature. (Probably extended to be intercut with the movie) You gotta fit this into 3 hours. This is an example of something being moved to the side. It's not like it didnt happen in the movie, we just didn't see it. What disturbed me more actually were the cuts made With Rorschach in prison. Having the entire revelation about who he is come so soon after meeting the psychiatrist took a lot of the impact our of it. (And we didn't hear enough about who he was when he was still Kovacs).

Spoiler

Also, I don't understand why Snyder had him brutally kill the man with a meat cleaver, rather than go with the GN's approach.

On the other hand, I think EVERYTHING with Jon was handled beautifully. (Of COURSE his schlong is more detailed, it's a freaking movie. Made with FILM projected on a 40 foot screen! It isn't a 4 inch drawn panel.) I always thought his story was the most poignant.

Not to mention the fact that they cut absolutely no corners with the Comedian. That took balls. (You think Snyder could do Thomas Covenant now?)

The Dreaming wrote:

Spoiler

Also, I don't understand why Snyder had him brutally kill the man with a meat cleaver, rather than go with the GN's approach.

Have you seen Saw? That's why. Of course, Mad Max did it before any of them...

The Dreaming wrote:The pirate comic is going to be on the DVD as an animated feature. (Probably extended to be intercut with the movie) You gotta fit this into 3 hours. This is an example of something being moved to the side. It's not like it didnt happen in the movie, we just didn't see it.

Why do we need it?

What disturbed me more actually were the cuts made With Rorschach in prison. Having the entire revelation about who he is come so soon after meeting the psychiatrist took a lot of the impact our of it. (And we didn't hear enough about who he was when he was still Kovacs).

I don't understand...what revelation? We had already seen flashback cuts that showed him as a kid with his mom about to bone someone, asumably for money...we know he a sociopath by how he acts...

Spoiler

Also, I don't understand why Snyder had him brutally kill the man with a meat cleaver, rather than go with the GN's approach.

I absolutely agree with you!

On the other hand, I think EVERYTHING with Jon was handled beautifully. (Of COURSE his schlong is more detailed, it's a freaking movie. Made with FILM projected on a 40 foot screen! It isn't a 4 inch drawn panel.) I always thought his story was the most poignant.

Amen.

Not to mention the fact that they cut absolutely no corners with the Comedian. That took balls. (You think Snyder could do Thomas Covenant now?)

No, I don't...the film was far to inconsistant...but yah, Comedian was hard to take, but put the film in perspective and made it real and moving...balls...

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:

What disturbed me more actually were the cuts made With Rorschach in prison. Having the entire revelation about who he is come so soon after meeting the psychiatrist took a lot of the impact our of it. (And we didn't hear enough about who he was when he was still Kovacs).

I don't understand...what revelation? We had already seen flashback cuts that showed him as a kid with his mom about to bone someone, asumably for money...we know he a sociopath by how he acts...

But we don't know why, then we realize in one of the best scenes from the novel (as Fist quoted). It almost saps you of as much energy as it must have Rorschach, the way his origin is finally revealed and its pace and delivery.

Spoiler

enormous blue penis

Spoiler

I didn't think it was that big.

Was there some point when the giant version of Dr Manhattan showed his penis? I can only remember the normal-sized one flashing it around impetuously.

Why do we need it?

If your take on the film is that it can make a strong departure from the original graphic novel, then we really don't need the pirate comic.

Spoiler

Snyder already undid/messed with the purpose the pirate comic served in the original by going from "freaky alien" to "fake Dr. Manhattan explosion.

Lord Foul wrote:

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:

What disturbed me more actually were the cuts made With Rorschach in prison. Having the entire revelation about who he is come so soon after meeting the psychiatrist took a lot of the impact our of it. (And we didn't hear enough about who he was when he was still Kovacs).

I don't understand...what revelation? We had already seen flashback cuts that showed him as a kid with his mom about to bone someone, asumably for money...we know he a sociopath by how he acts...

But we don't know why, then we realize in one of the best scenes from the novel (as Fist quoted). It almost saps you of as much energy as it must have Rorschach, the way his origin is finally revealed and its pace and delivery.

Maybe it was new/unpredictable in '85, maybe super heroes were so "super" that something like this was really new and shocking, original...but it didn't suprise, two nights ago, didn't make any impact at all...his character's previous actions told me all I needed to know - the violence, his views on people...it would all have to come from something like that scene...it wasn't shocking...Silence of the Lambs, Saw, Covenant...it deffinatley might put him over the edge as a person, but it didn't make me feel anything or realize him differantly...

I went to see the film with a friend of mine...and one of my favorite symbolic shots didn't resonate with her...and I'm just wondering if you guys felt that this symbolism was intentional:

Spoiler

Near the end, when the psychiatrist is watching the blue energy bomb go off, and his suit case falls open, psychological cards falling to the ground

I immediately thought the symbolism meant to convey something like- what does all your psychological musings mean in the face of life, or such power, or fate and chance...all your attempts to help yourself or others are for naught in the end...

...I was amazed and said to myself, this is what movies are all about...conveying meaning through the visual medium, it seemed to encapsulate all the ideas and feeling that Comedians entire character's recklessness portrayed...

...did anyone else get this out of that scene?

All I could think of was how much MORE impact it had in the GN, when the Psychiatrist, changed by his experience with Rorschach, sees two people fighting, and runs off to try and stop them. (at the expense of his marriage) He just can't ignore injustice anymore. He is CHANGED.

Like I said, 3 hours. There simply wasn't time to get inside the sub-stories. The only way to make the ending make sense was to keep it as is. Hell, the squid in the GN doesn't really make sense to anyone who hasn't read a crapload of comic books anyway.

The Dreaming wrote:All I could think of was how much MORE impact it had in the GN, when the Psychiatrist, changed by his experience with Rorschach, sees two people fighting, and runs off to try and stop them. (at the expense of his marriage) He just can't ignore injustice anymore. He is CHANGED.

Like I said, 3 hours. There simply wasn't time to get inside the sub-stories. The only way to make the ending make sense was to keep it as is. Hell, the squid in the GN doesn't really make sense to anyone who hasn't read a crapload of comic books anyway.

I see what you mean, that would have been moving, but would have taken at least another ten minutes of screen time to develop the Dr. a little more so you identify and care what he goes through and realizes...

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote: I don't understand...what revelation? We had already seen flashback cuts that showed him as a kid with his mom about to bone someone, asumably for money...we know he a sociopath by how he acts...

But we don't know why, then we realize in one of the best scenes from the novel (as Fist quoted). It almost saps you of as much energy as it must have Rorschach, the way his origin is finally revealed and its pace and delivery.

Maybe it was new/unpredictable in '85, maybe super heroes were so "super" that something like this was really new and shocking, original...but it didn't suprise, two nights ago, didn't make any impact at all...his character's previous actions told me all I needed to know - the violence, his views on people...it would all have to come from something like that scene...it wasn't shocking...Silence of the Lambs, Saw, Covenant...it deffinatley might put him over the edge as a person, but it didn't make me feel anything or realize him differantly...

I went to see the film with a friend of mine...and one of my favorite symbolic shots didn't resonate with her...and I'm just wondering if you guys felt that this symbolism was intentional:

Spoiler

Near the end, when the psychiatrist is watching the blue energy bomb go off, and his suit case falls open, psychological cards falling to the ground

Nah, I just thought it was a device to let you know it was the psychiatrist, because if it was a symbol, it is pretty blunt and unimaginative. Anyway, read the graphic novel and you'll see the power--a lot of it philosophical--in Rorschach's origin. It's not meant to shock you, in the way a slasher like Saw (whose deaths are Rube Goldberg machines) but rather, it makes you think and feel how he felt about not just the scene itself but morality and existence in general. It's well done and one of the emotional centers of the book. Axing on the head and the lack of that monologue tore all that away, as well as the quick shuffling through the entire scene itself.

Another problem: why do Nite Owl and Silk Specter have to murder all those muggers (this is a huge deviation from the book)? Stick a knife in one guy's neck or punch the bone out of one's arm or break a neck? It takes away, to me, the power of Rorschach being a sociopath because if the normal people do that then what's it matter? The whole point was that these superheroes never kill when they don't have to, only incapacitate, and even when they do (like the Comedian) they at least have a reason for it (even if it's crazy). But it goes against Nite Owl and Specter.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote: I don't understand...what revelation? We had already seen flashback cuts that showed him as a kid with his mom about to bone someone, asumably for money...we know he a sociopath by how he acts...

But we don't know why, then we realize in one of the best scenes from the novel (as Fist quoted). It almost saps you of as much energy as it must have Rorschach, the way his origin is finally revealed and its pace and delivery.

Maybe it was new/unpredictable in '85, maybe super heroes were so "super" that something like this was really new and shocking, original...but it didn't suprise, two nights ago, didn't make any impact at all...his character's previous actions told me all I needed to know - the violence, his views on people...it would all have to come from something like that scene...it wasn't shocking...Silence of the Lambs, Saw, Covenant...it deffinatley might put him over the edge as a person, but it didn't make me feel anything or realize him differantly...

He didn't name himself Rorschach because it represents sociopathy, or violence, or shock. Without his story - much of which is, I gather, missing from the movie - you cannot know why he calls himself Rorschach. The passage I quoted in my previous post is the culmination of his story. But even that, brilliantly written as it is, is not enough. I'll see the movie this weekend, and likely enjoy it a whole lot. But it sounds as though the best part is treated very superficially. "Mom was a whore. I got beat up. A guy killed a little girl. I'm gonna hurt people now." As though his mind snapped from all he went through and saw. As though he did not come to a very real enlightenment. It is a great loss.

I just started reading the GN

My lover, who's not into Comic or SciFi/Fantasy movies very much at all, just announced he wants to take me to see it this weekend, 'cause it looks really cool.

It really does look cool, and I really want to see it since I've thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority of the comic book movies I've seen in the past few years.

But between the tepid reviews, the director, and the run time, I'm seriously considering holding off until it comes out on Blu-Ray.

Cail wrote:It really does look cool, and I really want to see it since I've thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority of the comic book movies I've seen in the past few years.

But between the tepid reviews, the director, and the run time, I'm seriously considering holding off until it comes out on Blu-Ray.

It's raking in the bucks, though, already up to $56 Million. Plus, for those of us who have no knowledge of the Graphic Novel(s) we have nothing to compare it to, and it seems the biggest complaints I've seen are comparisons to the source material.

Good point.

Wanna double-date?

Cail wrote:Good point.

Wanna double-date?

That's a heck of a commute, complete opposite sides of the country.

I'd say we could meet somewhere in the middle like Kansas, but I don't think either of us would fit in very well there!

Cail wrote:I'd say we could meet somewhere in the middle like Kansas, but I don't think either of us would fit in very well there!

Although I'm California born and bred, and of British mother, French Canadian Father, for some reason most people who meet me get the impression I'm from Kansas or Montana, so I might fit in

I'm not positive, but I think that's one of the definitions of irony.

It was awesome!!! Freakin' awesome!!! I was stunned by it. I loved it SOO much!!!

Yeah, sure, there were some problems. The whole Rorschach/psychiatrist being the biggest. No mention of Kitty Genovese. The new way of killing the kidnapper wouldn't have been a big deal if not burning the house hadn't meant missing the opportunity for the speech I quoted above.

I wasn't at all concerned with the frame-up ending, instead of the creature. The characters had to react the same way, and that's what counts.

But there was SOOO much greatness!! So many moments and lines that were there.
-"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. You're locked up in here with me!"
-"There don't seem to be that many laughs around these days." "Well, what do you expect? The Comedian is Dead."
-Moloch's cigarette ash.

I loved the action. The slo-mo moments only made it better for me. And watching Owl and Silk kick serious ass was fantastic.

And, damn it, just everything! The whole look. The effects. The casting (in all cases but Ozy) was great. A really hot sex scene.

The fact that the source material is arguably the greatest achievement of the genre certainly helped.

I'm most definitely seeing it again before it's gone. Probably try for IMAX, which I didn't manage this time.